Haha good one
Haha good one
Nothing wrong with getting an outside perspective. Just wondering if you had asked about training during your visit. If so, was this a change from what you had been told?
entropy123 wrote:
1 min - 1.5 min slower than 5k
1.5 minutes per mile slower than 5K pace is doable. For a 15:00 guy, that would be 6:20 pace which would be easy for 5-6 miles. Many LRers seem to think over distance pace should be at 8:00, but your coach’s plan won’t cause injury or burnout. 1 minute would be too fast.
entropy123 wrote:
..
How about asking your coach, in a constructive, non-confrontational way, "Coach, I'm new to the program. Could tell me a little bit about your training philosophy? What are your expectations of me/us?"
You could also ask some of the upper classmen about their experience with the training. Did it work for them? How do the workouts progress over the season, etc? Did they get burned out? How did they avoid that?
Also, if you're worried about "running steady pace" all but one day, why don't you just run your "steady" pace a little slower than whatever this steady pace is, that you're so worried will burn you out? "Run steady" means different things to different people.
Maybe your coach's definition of steady isn't quite the burnout-'til-you-dropout pace you think it is. If it was, how would he have trained multiple athletes to the All American level by burning them all out?
I trained similar to this before with a 15 flat 5k and ran around 6 flat to 6:45 for most runs 70-80 mile weeks. 1-2 runs a week were at 7- 7:30 (typically double days). On top of that I typically did strides 3 days and 1 tempo run. Every time I would get into the best shape of my life and then get hurt before I could race a 5k. Listen to your body know when to take a week slower. Do strength work and address any weakness to prevent injuries. It works but also can be risky for the wrong person. I typically averaged 6:30-6:45 pace for the week. Your goal is to be fastest in 4 years not 1 year and injured the rest.
entropy123 wrote:
I have talked to my coach and my teammates I just wanted to discuss it with other people because i thought it was an interesting topic
What did they say?
10 bucks says OP is running for Harvard next year. All their guys do this.
Sounds like old school Lydiard. I think it's fine if you're a slow twitch guy. If you're fast twitch you'll probably get burnt out/overtrained. You're basically just running around Marathon pace every day. It's a ton of mileage in a range that doesn't really have any specific benefits over easy pace but is a lot harder on your body. If your coach wanted to be lazy all easy with one tempo/track workout is way better.
Have your mom email your concerns to the athletic director
Why does everyone think running steady (1-1.5 min slower than 5k pace) will burn someone out? If you are realistic with yourself and execute these runs correctly it will not lead to burnout because aerobic running does not burn you out!
Chili'$ wrote:
Why does everyone think running steady (1-1.5 min slower than 5k pace) will burn someone out? If you are realistic with yourself and execute these runs correctly it will not lead to burnout because aerobic running does not burn you out!
This.
Listen to your body (niggles and recovery signs.)
Chili'$ wrote:
Why does everyone think running steady (1-1.5 min slower than 5k pace) will burn someone out? If you are realistic with yourself and execute these runs correctly it will not lead to burnout because aerobic running does not burn you out!
Obviously Arthur Lydiard didn´t think runners would be burned out by doing high volume of steady running in the base phase.
Few coaches have coached multiple all Americans so I don't understand your concern. And why even ask here?
It isn't normal training. Now you know. Are you going to quit? Are you going to enter the transfer portal?
entropy123 wrote:
I am a rising freshman for a mid-D1 program. I will be running around 70 mpw at my peak mileage week this season. Our coach is having us buildup to this mileage by doing 5-6 steady runs a week and 1 easy run. I have heard of great runners doing this method and having success but I have also heard stories of runners burning out or getting injured by training this way. I trust my coach, his program has had multiple NCAA all Americans but I’m worried I will get injured by training like this. Is it normal for collegiate runners to train this way?
The 90s-early 00s called and wants its training back.
People are brainwashed on this site, and off this site, to think you have to run slow so much. If you're not doing real workouts you can run a little faster or 'steady' more often. That's what this summer training is, it's mostly 'steady' running and then the occasional true slow/easy run just to make sure you're not doing too much. If you're cranking out a hard workout every few days, then yes you need to go easy on the other days to recover. But if you're not breaking your body down with hard workouts you can go a little faster than easy pace most of the time.
I'm not talking crazy paces. Let's take a hypothetical NCAA guy running 14:00 for 5k or 4:30 pace. His true easy run pace is probably in the 6:45-7:00 pace, and maybe the day after a race or a killer workout he might even be 7:00-7:15 pace. But in the summer when he's not doing hard workouts, he could run quite a few of his runs in the 6:15-6:30 range, this is 'steady'. It's still nowhere near any racing pace for him, he could run a marathon significantly faster than that. If you're not doing workouts it is dumb to run super slow every day.
Another thing to be careful about - especially if you're running with future teammates - is to not let these steady runs turn into tempo runs (or faster) by getting into races with other people you're running with. That seems to be how a lot of college runners run too fast - they let their egos take over and end up trying to be top dog during day in day out runs. Nobody gets a trophy for winning the easy run, steady run, or even the workout.
So keep things at the slow end of your coach's range, i.e. 1:30 slower than 5K pace - and that's after warming up into it.
Good post. Lydiard defined a steady run as one where your level of effort late in the run wasn't much harder than at the beginning. If you're running 6:30 or so early in the run at one level of effort but need to push progressively harder to maintain that pace in the later bits of the run you're "racing your training," (Arthur's term). But if you're able to run 6:30s (and I'm just grabbing a number here) with no seriously increased effort as the run goes on it's a steady run and he'd say you can do those indefinitely.
It's the effort level that matters, not the pace, which is probably going to vary with conditions. That 6:30 may be much too fast on a boiling hot day when you're dead tired from your summer job at the start and occasionally too slow on a weekend run when you haven't worked and the temperature dropped to a nice cool range. If you have trouble knowing if your effort is about the same throughout the run you can take your pulse at times.
This guy is going to Harvard. Sounds like maintenance pace and the username of “entropy” indicates an interest in academics. Gibby knows what he is doing buddy.
Chili'$ wrote:
Why does everyone think running steady (1-1.5 min slower than 5k pace) will burn someone out? If you are realistic with yourself and execute these runs correctly it will not lead to burnout because aerobic running does not burn you out!
I literally explained this. If you're slow twitch, it's fine. If you're fast twitch, you probably won't be. The science of this is pretty obvious.
Additional Factors-
Running is naturally catabolic. You counter this by doing strides, intervals, lifting, or just having high testosterone to increase protein synthesis. If you don't think muscle matters in running, then go be a girl.
Running the same pace every day will lead to overuse injuries.
Running "steady" mostly negates your ability to listen to your body. If you had a hard interval session or race, your body will know. If you took it slightly faster than steady, you won't know, unless you have a lactate meter. This fatigue will build up over time, and your times will start to get slower and your runs will feel harder and you won't know why.
Steady running is the most garbage concept in running.
Multipaced training is infinitely better, even in base. 80/20. Easy/Hard. It's like you guys forgot what you did in HS to actually get fast.