No need to be bitter. Both are great runners. Sahlman's kick in distance events (minus Sumner and Flatt at 800m) is just too much for any high schooler this year.
I see this lighting a fire under Martin. Don't be surprised if we see him work to develop a monster kick.
I’ve watched just about all of Sahlman’s races this year, and he has such impressive closing speed off all of his fast races across multiple distances. I mean, he beat Murphy to the line at Pre! Whether or not this continues, and whether or not Martin can match this in time, we will see. I realize forecasting the future is fraught, but based on this observation, you would need to give Sahlman the edge regarding future prospects.
I don’t know. I don’t want to interpret differences in tenths of a second for guys this age. So much of this is the result of specific training, how close they are to optimal fitness on this date, knowing how to optimize effort over the distance, knowing how to do pre-meet days and warm up optimally, etc. All of that stuff matters (at least in the fractions of seconds that people are using to guess who will be better in the future). How many times has Martin run an 800 with his current level of fitness? Even Sahlman is still new to this level. So I’m not “giving him an edge”. Yes he won the race and that matters and he earned it. But I’m not thinking that gives him some edge over other guys in the future. If I am going to make a guess, I think Martin might have the best future if he really has had the least training (but I don’t know if that is true). And I’m old too but probably not wise.
It is also ridiculous for grown men to be debating who is a better HS runner. You guys are probably not grown men. I do not have that excuse. I need to refrain from this silliness.
We also do NOT know that Colin is better at cross country. We know he was last fall. This is not a static situation.
Ok, how about 8:33 vs. 8:41. What we know is that Sahlman was faster than Martin in XC in December and faster in 3200 on the track this Spring. I think it is logical to conclude Sahlman is better at XC until Martin proves otherwise.
He's literally faster at every single distance, I don't know why anyone would be questioning who the better runner is currently.
It is also ridiculous for grown men to be debating who is a better HS runner. You guys are probably not grown men. I do not have that excuse. I need to refrain from this silliness.
I’ve watched just about all of Sahlman’s races this year, and he has such impressive closing speed off all of his fast races across multiple distances. I mean, he beat Murphy to the line at Pre! Whether or not this continues, and whether or not Martin can match this in time, we will see. I realize forecasting the future is fraught, but based on this observation, you would need to give Sahlman the edge regarding future prospects.
I don’t know. I don’t want to interpret differences in tenths of a second for guys this age. So much of this is the result of specific training, how close they are to optimal fitness on this date, knowing how to optimize effort over the distance, knowing how to do pre-meet days and warm up optimally, etc. All of that stuff matters (at least in the fractions of seconds that people are using to guess who will be better in the future). How many times has Martin run an 800 with his current level of fitness? Even Sahlman is still new to this level. So I’m not “giving him an edge”. Yes he won the race and that matters and he earned it. But I’m not thinking that gives him some edge over other guys in the future. If I am going to make a guess, I think Martin might have the best future if he really has had the least training (but I don’t know if that is true). And I’m old too but probably not wise.
Actually you have one of the best posts in this thread. This is on the mark.
.. wrote: And Sahlman was more than 20 seconds faster than Martin in XC.
I don’t follow XC all that closely. Did Sahlman & Martin actually race against each other with Sahlman winning by more than 20 seconds? If not, that time comparison is meaningless.
A peeve of mine is XC times from different courses being compared. Courses are so different from each other. Also, a “5k course” at one venue may be 3.1 miles and at another venue, 3.2 miles. XC times are meaningless unless on the same course and against the same competition. Place, not time, is what matters in XC.
It is also ridiculous for grown men to be debating who is a better HS runner. You guys are probably not grown men. I do not have that excuse. I need to refrain from this silliness.
You know, there is a whole industry built around rating the prospects/potential of high school football and basketball players.
I’m just so used to XC times from different courses being compared so when I hear “Seymour Butz ran a faster 5k in xc than Ben Dover” it irks me because those times were often on different courses and against different competition. Milesplit is the worst at doing it.
I’m just so used to XC times from different courses being compared so when I hear “Seymour Butz ran a faster 5k in xc than Ben Dover” it irks me because those times were often on different courses and against different competition. Milesplit is the worst at doing it.
Apparently Martin started doing X-Country in 10th grade. His development has been astounding.
No need to be bitter. Both are great runners. Sahlman's kick in distance events (minus Sumner and Flatt at 800m) is just too much for any high schooler this year.
I see this lighting a fire under Martin. Don't be surprised if we see him work to develop a monster kick.
I’ve watched just about all of Sahlman’s races this year, and he has such impressive closing speed off all of his fast races across multiple distances. I mean, he beat Murphy to the line at Pre! Whether or not this continues, and whether or not Martin can match this in time, we will see. I realize forecasting the future is fraught, but based on this observation, you would need to give Sahlman the edge regarding future prospects.
It seems Colin has slightly better top-end speed than Martin and there’s not much Martin can do about that. To beat Stahlman, he’ll need to gain enough of a strength advantage to neutralize Stahlman’s kick. That doesn’t currently seem possible but things can change.
I don’t know. I don’t want to interpret differences in tenths of a second for guys this age. So much of this is the result of specific training, how close they are to optimal fitness on this date, knowing how to optimize effort over the distance, knowing how to do pre-meet days and warm up optimally, etc. All of that stuff matters (at least in the fractions of seconds that people are using to guess who will be better in the future). How many times has Martin run an 800 with his current level of fitness? Even Sahlman is still new to this level. So I’m not “giving him an edge”. Yes he won the race and that matters and he earned it. But I’m not thinking that gives him some edge over other guys in the future. If I am going to make a guess, I think Martin might have the best future if he really has had the least training (but I don’t know if that is true). And I’m old too but probably not wise.
If you watched the race, Martin wasn’t patient enough. He burned unnecessary matches before the last 150. He probably still doesn’t beat Sahlman, but should’ve had Plant. By the last 100 he was out of moves. He has room for improvement just with better tactics.
Both very talented. But as always it’s how one progresses when stepping to the next level. Wishing them both continued success. It will be interesting the next few years…
Sahlman is exceptional because he is so unbelievably thin. It works for him, but I worry because most runners this thin end up with chronic injuries. Clearly what he and his coaches are doing is working, as he’s stayed healthy and put up phenomenal times.
I think this is why Gary Martin seems like the more interesting pro prospect. He looks to have the better physique and more fluid form, while Sahlman is gangly and doesn’t appear powerful. That finishing 200 is quick though! It will be great to see how Sahlman fills out (only slightly) with a stable college strength program, nutritionist, etc.
The sky is the limit for both of these kids, there’s a reason for so much excitement!
I’m just so used to XC times from different courses being compared so when I hear “Seymour Butz ran a faster 5k in xc than Ben Dover” it irks me because those times were often on different courses and against different competition. Milesplit is the worst at doing it.
Ultimately, both of them were caught from behind by Mike Oxlong.
More than the absolute times, it’s the Sahlman kick that separates them. I don’t have the numbers, but I suspect if you look at their final 100-200m off their best races you’ll see that Sahlman consistently is able to close faster. This may be his asset that will separate them over time. I could imagine Sahlman v Martin ending up like Hocker v Teare. Anyway, let’s hope so….
Ok noob. When you have better endurance you can “kick faster” morons talk about kicks when they don’t understand it’s mostly focused on someone just not being as tired because they are the better runner.
You are correct. Particularly in the 800, where there is no "kick" at all. The person who appears to be kicking (in a fast 800) isn't actually accelerating. They are just slowing down less than the others over the final stretch. Fast 800s, including every world record ever set, is a positive split and the fast kicker is actually just better at maintaining a speed they all were running at.
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