You're setting yourself up for failure: his mom is making him do something he doesn't want to do and your mom is making you do something you don't want to do. If he's not motivated he won't do the required workouts. Best course of action would be to talk to the kid and get both moms in a room together to make them aware of this.
Even if he did the workouts his chances of making it are slim and you'll probably get blamed for that.
easiest way to build fitness for someone like this while avoiding slogging around at 10:00+ pace is have him do a bunch of run-walk intervals.
run for 30 - 90 seconds walk for 30 - 60 seconds
biggest issue for someone with no athletic experience is generally going to be injuries. connective tissue and bones remodel pretty damn slow, unfortunately. shin splints prob in this kid's future, especially if he's wearing trash shoes initially.
he prob ran those times you have listed in vans or basketball shoes or something ridiculous.
to be clear, this situation sounds like a train wreck.
Sounds like this kids needs the classic summer of malmo. If the team actually cuts it's his only shot to actually get some endurance. What doesn't make sense is why doesn't he just run with the team? Surely they have some sort of summer program to get new kids interested and try to develop talent. That's what I would suggest. Why waste your time if better options are available? The kid can't run with you so he's gonna need others to run with anyway.
okay, thanks for the input! the team starts workouts with the new kids in july, so he's got a month before he can do that. I already told him that that would be a good idea, but he doesn't seem crazy about it (I think he feels embarrassed about his times, even though I tried to tell him that there will be others like him). Also, his mom is very excited that I help him, she thinks I know better (which is clearly not the case since I am posting about this on the internet haha). Also, I actually was planning on doing whatever I have him do with him. It won't really have any effect on me, and I thought it would make it more fun for him. But yeah, I'll look into what I can do to boost his endurance....
Summer of Malmo isn't bad but it isn't designed for runners who need immediate results (says so himself). This guy needs to get fit, FAST so that he can start doing easy runs at paces that somewhat resemble running. Malmo's workouts consist of two threshold runs. This guy's threshold pace is like 11min a mile... He needs hard VO2 max sessions right now. Something like 4x400 would be a good start. I would also argue hills especially for XC but also because it's good injury prevention.
i would say their threshold pace is more like 15 minutes a mile! 3:39 800 to 10:13 mile is troublesome. this is a person who would be lucky to complete a 5k in 40 minutes.
yeah, i don't think his threshold pace is 11 minutes either, it's probably closer to 15, though I have no idea how he did the mile, since he probably has no idea how to pace himself. I assume that he probably tried to go very fast in the beginning and then ended up walking parts of it, but I don't know, but I highly doubt he kept a consistent pace throughout. but yeah, i think 4x400 might be something I could have him do.....I guess I'll have to try some different stuff.....and see what works best.
You're setting yourself up for failure: his mom is making him do something he doesn't want to do and your mom is making you do something you don't want to do. If he's not motivated he won't do the required workouts. Best course of action would be to talk to the kid and get both moms in a room together to make them aware of this.
Even if he did the workouts his chances of making it are slim and you'll probably get blamed for that.
yeah I probably am setting myself up to fail haha, but I already told both my mom and his mom that I would do it, and now they are super excited, and I don't want to let them down (I am pretty bad at telling my mom no in general lol). My hope is that I can make it fun for him, and that he learns to enjoy it, gets a little better, and then I basically beg my highschool coach to let him make the team lol (not to race or anything, but to just be allowed to go to the practices and stuff, and maybe then he can actually make the track team or xc the following year). I don't know what else to do, I actually feel a lot of pressure to help him make the team, and I don't think I can explain to his mom that I tried my best if he doesn't make it.......so I guess I'm gonna have a super fun summer, woo hoo!
easiest way to build fitness for someone like this while avoiding slogging around at 10:00+ pace is have him do a bunch of run-walk intervals.
run for 30 - 90 seconds walk for 30 - 60 seconds
biggest issue for someone with no athletic experience is generally going to be injuries. connective tissue and bones remodel pretty damn slow, unfortunately. shin splints prob in this kid's future, especially if he's wearing trash shoes initially.
he prob ran those times you have listed in vans or basketball shoes or something ridiculous.
to be clear, this situation sounds like a train wreck.
okay thank you, run-walk intervals are great idea, I can't believe I did not think of that! I really hope I don't injure him, cuz that would be horrible lol.......I guess I'll try and emphasize warming up and stretching. Also, I have no idea what shoes he ran in......but I am assuming it was not actual running shoes. And yup, this situation is definitely a train wreck, that's why I am on here trying to get any help I can get lol. Anyways, thanks for the run-walk idea, I am definitely going to use that!
Multipaced training is the only way to go. Start off with Hills(or even hiking/stairs), VO2 Max, Threshold every week, easy runs between those. Low volume, maybe only like 1600m worth of work.
Just please don't have him do 12 minute easy runs all the time like every garbage training plan out there. If you needed to slog a month to get your body ready for faster running kids would be going to the ER after playing tag or something.
If he can get his 1600 below 6 minutes you might think about long runs.
I came here to post this. I get 3-8 of these types of kids every year (but the female version is even slower). At least one of these kids ends up as a varsity athlete for me, without fail. This year, I had two boys running for me that, as freshmen, matched this guy's profile almost to the letter (although, I don't think they could have run 13 flat for the 100). They ended this season with PR's of: 2:11, 4:56, 10:47 and 2:14, 4:57, 10:47. This kid needs to simply GET IN SHAPE and become more athletic. Sure, he needs to do some longer runs as well, but don't put the cart before the horse.
Most of the kids that are initially successful in running have been participating in some other sport where they've built fitness: Soccer, Basketball, Swim Team, etc.....Kids with a lifetime of Xbox under their belts need some time to just develop a broad base of athletic ability.
Over the years, I've moved more and more away from just having beginners try to run for extended periods of time and gone more towards what other sports might call "conditioning". For example, one of the things I do is set out cones in various patterns (zig zag, etc.....) and have the kids sprint through them. I have the kids run bleachers, hop up the bleachers, side step up the bleachers. I do lots of circuits with them.
Here are some circuit training videos I made for my teams during lockdown.
Another conditioning circuit brought to you by Hughson Athletics. This corcuit is designed to increase athletes’ work capacity in the early season or as part...
This is a general conditioning circuit used at Hughson High School. It isnpart of our series on circuits that can easily be incorporated into any sports prac...
This circuit is designed to develop jumping power and sprint speed bu teaching athletes to sequentially engage glutes, quads, and calbes. This circuit can be...
This circuit is designed to help develop explosive jumping and sprinting ability. It is the first in the series of the Hughson Athletic Department’s “Mythica...
This circuit is designed for all levels of athlete to increase explosiveness and jumping ability in all sports by helping teach the hips, glutes, and calves ...
I also like coach Holler. We've pretty much taken the warm up from this video and made it one of our daily warm ups. Be super strict on doing the drills right, or they are meaningless
This video about the Atomic Workout, a speed workout in under 16 minutes. I walk through key concepts around the workout, as well as the drills and technique...
If I were coaching this kid, the first week might look like this:
Mon: 1 lap jog, Atomic Warm UP. 4-6 x 100m strides (17 ish seconds, assuming 13 second PR is correct) walk back recovery. Multi Jumps Circuit. Stretch (This is your "speed" day)
Tue: Ride a bike, play basketball, something like that
Wed: 1 lap jog, Atomic Warm Up, 1 lap moderate (maybe 2:00?), Full Recovery, Anubis Circuit, 1 lap jog (this is your "endurance" day!), Stretch
Thu: Ride a bike, hoop it up, you get the picture.....
Fri: 1 lap jog. Atomic Warm UP. 3-5 times bleachers with high knees (if you have access) walk down, Black Shuck Circuit. Stretch. If you don't have bleachers, you can do one of the more explosive circuits again.
Sat: Active recovery (see Tue/Thu), or off.
Sun: Off.
It's just that simple. After 2 weeks, make the 1 lap warm up a 2 lap warm up. Make the 1 lap moderate a 2 lap moderate. Make the 1 lap cool down a 2 lap cool down. On Fridays, start moving from the black shuck circuit to the Minotaur or sets of the Dragon circuit. Add more strides on Monday, or make the recovery a jog back instead of a walk back.
Hit up a mile TT after about 4-5 weeks and watch the magic happen. From there, you can keep progressing.
The first actual running goal I have for my athletes is to run 20 min without stopping, no matter how slow. After they can accomplish that, just let them gradually run it faster. By the end of the summer, maybe your kid is doing this 2-3 times a week, covering 2 -2.225 miles each time. That would be in addition to the other stuff listed above and would replace the bike ride or basketball. Make sure he's just running those easy. I'd guess the mile PR would be down toward 7:30 by this point and that he'd have a decent foundation to join the CC team at that point.
Multipaced training is the only way to go. Start off with Hills(or even hiking/stairs), VO2 Max, Threshold every week, easy runs between those. Low volume, maybe only like 1600m worth of work.
Just please don't have him do 12 minute easy runs all the time like every garbage training plan out there. If you needed to slog a month to get your body ready for faster running kids would be going to the ER after playing tag or something.
If he can get his 1600 below 6 minutes you might think about long runs.
okay thanks for the advice! I was considering longer runs, but I think you are probably right that I should not start with those.
I agree, you need to break this up for him. Your post states he can only run a mile in 10 minutes, and has no desire to run further. I don't think he's even in shape to run 12 minute easy runs of more than 2 miles. I don't think he's in shape to run 3 miles at all. Bottom line is - he's not a runner yet, he is a couch potato. You need to start his training at square one. Make it fun, get him as much volume as you can without destroying his motivation. Vary the intensity and be sure to point out what progress looks like. Get him to enjoy running.
Really, your goal here is to get him in shape enough by xc to finish a race without walking. Maybe each week, you do a "long run" ... just a test to see how far he can make it without stopping. He'll see the progress week to week and hopefully that will keep him motivated.
Absolutely agree with CoachB. Plus keep it fun! You could bring music to the circuit training, have fun yourself, and figure out what motivates him. Throw in some swimming, water balloon fights, squirt guns, hiking, hill intervals, etc. Keep it light and fun.
As someone who was a top runner in the state, but not a fan of running over two miles or training over the summer, I suggest having him run only a couple days a week and having two days off entirely.
Summer of Malmo isn't bad but it isn't designed for runners who need immediate results (says so himself). This guy needs to get fit, FAST so that he can start doing easy runs at paces that somewhat resemble running. Malmo's workouts consist of two threshold runs.
Two threshold runs in SOM? Not really.
This kid is in need of basic conditioning. Daily easy running and short (up to 200m) repeats on the track and/or hills. Anything longer will do nothing but discourage him.
I wish that I could have run 13s for 100m in the 8th grade. He does have potential.
Get him doing hill sprints/sled pulls twice a week, something aerobic (zone 1-2) three times a week (run-walk, hiking, bicycling) and cross training with a game with lots of movement, ultimate frisbee, basketball, tennis etc twice a week (even frisbee golf would work).
You should also do something with real feed back, e.g. 200m time, once a week so he can see his progress.
I'm confused. The kid hates running and has no interest in running XC or track but you're trying to figure out what event he should do? What am I missing here?
I've trained runners with no athletic background and had success with some of them. For example, I had a group of girls who walked during their first mile time trial and most ran sub-7 by the end of their first season. Not elite, but good results for under 3 months of training.
The biggest mistake I made starting out is expecting them to be runners from day 1. These were girls who enjoyed running and were very willing to run 10-20 mins every day from the start of the season. Still, I learned very quickly that most people who did not grow up playing sports involving running (mostly soccer and basketball) need to become athletes before they can become runners.
In a team environment, this means taking a couple days per week, completely eliminating the "run" and letting them play ultimate, capture the flag, or doing relays involving plyometric movements. This builds the mobility and strength that kids need to eventually become successful runners. Without this, even with pretty conservative training, they're very likely to get injured.
I'm not sure how you do this in an individual coaching environment. Honestly, I think a kid with no athletic background should find an enjoyable athletic activity to do in the summer while building toward running 5-6 days per week (starting with just 2-3). If you must coach him individually, the closest you can come is making up strength/agility circuits for him to do, but that doesn't sound like it would be much fun for this kid.
wow @CoachB, thank you so much for this post! I think this is perfect! I will definitely try the training plan you suggested, and wow, I love the videos you made! (I wish my coach had done that during lockdown haha). Overall, thank you so so much, this looks like a great start for him, and I think it will make it fun for him too. Also, you just practically saved me like 4 all-nighters of trying to figure something out! :D
I agree, you need to break this up for him. Your post states he can only run a mile in 10 minutes, and has no desire to run further. I don't think he's even in shape to run 12 minute easy runs of more than 2 miles. I don't think he's in shape to run 3 miles at all. Bottom line is - he's not a runner yet, he is a couch potato. You need to start his training at square one. Make it fun, get him as much volume as you can without destroying his motivation. Vary the intensity and be sure to point out what progress looks like. Get him to enjoy running.
Really, your goal here is to get him in shape enough by xc to finish a race without walking. Maybe each week, you do a "long run" ... just a test to see how far he can make it without stopping. He'll see the progress week to week and hopefully that will keep him motivated.
thanks for the advice! yeah, I definitely don't think he is in shape to run 3 miles, to be honest, he probably can't even run 2 miles. But I will definitely try to make it fun for him, and get him to realize how great running can be, and hopefully he won't be a couch potato by the end of the summer, and I won't be a failure haha!
Absolutely agree with CoachB. Plus keep it fun! You could bring music to the circuit training, have fun yourself, and figure out what motivates him. Throw in some swimming, water balloon fights, squirt guns, hiking, hill intervals, etc. Keep it light and fun.
As someone who was a top runner in the state, but not a fan of running over two miles or training over the summer, I suggest having him run only a couple days a week and having two days off entirely.
yup CoachB is awesome!! And thank you, music is a great idea! I will definitely have him only do a couple days a week, and yup, I'm gonna try and throw in some other stuff to make it even more fun! Wow, letsrun has really been great with advice, I was honestly so freaking stressed out about this, and now I am actually kind of excited, thanks everyone!!!!
Summer of Malmo isn't bad but it isn't designed for runners who need immediate results (says so himself). This guy needs to get fit, FAST so that he can start doing easy runs at paces that somewhat resemble running. Malmo's workouts consist of two threshold runs.
Two threshold runs in SOM? Not really.
This kid is in need of basic conditioning. Daily easy running and short (up to 200m) repeats on the track and/or hills. Anything longer will do nothing but discourage him.
I wish that I could have run 13s for 100m in the 8th grade. He does have potential.
yeah, I think you are right, though I have to say, I have personally never been a fan of hills lol. Thanks for the advice and encouragement!
Get him doing hill sprints/sled pulls twice a week, something aerobic (zone 1-2) three times a week (run-walk, hiking, bicycling) and cross training with a game with lots of movement, ultimate frisbee, basketball, tennis etc twice a week (even frisbee golf would work).
You should also do something with real feed back, e.g. 200m time, once a week so he can see his progress.
Yup that sounds good, thank you!! I will definitely try and get him to do some other sport/activity to help with overall fitness (he pretty much plays video games all day rn, and does no exercise, even though he somehow actually has a pretty solid build for a distance runner), I was thinking maybe soccer, biking, going on the trampoline, whatever, but yeah, I also think I should do some stuff on the track with him maybe twice a week, and then slowly build from there. thank again for the input!
I've trained runners with no athletic background and had success with some of them. For example, I had a group of girls who walked during their first mile time trial and most ran sub-7 by the end of their first season. Not elite, but good results for under 3 months of training.
The biggest mistake I made starting out is expecting them to be runners from day 1. These were girls who enjoyed running and were very willing to run 10-20 mins every day from the start of the season. Still, I learned very quickly that most people who did not grow up playing sports involving running (mostly soccer and basketball) need to become athletes before they can become runners.
In a team environment, this means taking a couple days per week, completely eliminating the "run" and letting them play ultimate, capture the flag, or doing relays involving plyometric movements. This builds the mobility and strength that kids need to eventually become successful runners. Without this, even with pretty conservative training, they're very likely to get injured.
I'm not sure how you do this in an individual coaching environment. Honestly, I think a kid with no athletic background should find an enjoyable athletic activity to do in the summer while building toward running 5-6 days per week (starting with just 2-3). If you must coach him individually, the closest you can come is making up strength/agility circuits for him to do, but that doesn't sound like it would be much fun for this kid.
oh wow that's a good idea! I'm thinking maybe I should just do active things with him for the first week, before even starting to run, just to kind of give him some kind of athletic background, and then maybe start what CoachB said from week 2. Yeah, I don't think I can play capture the flag with just me and him, but I think we can do tag, frisbee, soccer, cones, whatever, to hopefully make it fun (and build a positive relationship with him), before we actually get into the running. Idk, let me know if this sounds good, but thanks for the advice!
You're setting yourself up for failure: his mom is making him do something he doesn't want to do and your mom is making you do something you don't want to do. If he's not motivated he won't do the required workouts. Best course of action would be to talk to the kid and get both moms in a room together to make them aware of this.
Even if he did the workouts his chances of making it are slim and you'll probably get blamed for that.
yeah I probably am setting myself up to fail haha, but I already told both my mom and his mom that I would do it, and now they are super excited, and I don't want to let them down (I am pretty bad at telling my mom no in general lol). My hope is that I can make it fun for him, and that he learns to enjoy it, gets a little better, and then I basically beg my highschool coach to let him make the team lol (not to race or anything, but to just be allowed to go to the practices and stuff, and maybe then he can actually make the track team or xc the following year). I don't know what else to do, I actually feel a lot of pressure to help him make the team, and I don't think I can explain to his mom that I tried my best if he doesn't make it.......so I guess I'm gonna have a super fun summer, woo hoo!
You have problems telling no to your mom? I think you need to sort that out before coaching this kid. You are not going to be working miracles unless you have a supply of PEDs.
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