Do tempo next%'s/vaporflies make you lose running fitness when used as a training shoe?

Same for me. I only wear normal trainers for training runs because I like the psychological boost of knowing whatever I run in them, I'll be a few seconds per/km quicker once I'm in Vaporfly's. I've no real evidence of that, it's just what works for me

I'm still misunderstanding the use of the pronoun "who" for supershoes.

He hasn't "misunderstood everything", he focused only on one aspect.

What needs to be tested in a real study is to keep parameters equal except one, the shoes. I'd have at least groups: First group same mileage, same intensity/HR for all runs (in Nike Next% versus say Nike Pegasus) and then a second group same mileage and same pace for all runs (also in Next% vs Pegasus). I would expect better results in Next % in group 1 (better rested) and the hypothesis (from the first poster above) - that in group 2 the Pegasus guy would improve more as they would have been working harder to cover the same distance at the same pace.

I’ve actually thought about this a lot as well…. And with no scientific knowledge, tests, studies…. I’ve decided to train with “normal shoes,” don’t worry that I’m 5 seconds slower on the tempo runs than the guy wearing the super shoes…. But when I put those bad boys on my feet I know I’m gonna run a lot faster, less toll on my legs and probably won’t cramp or have issues as I’ve been training in shoes that does do damage ( and my body has recovered from)…. So it’s also a mental advantage to me that I get to put these shoes on that will help me, where as the person wearing the shoes in training, says….. I just hope I can hang on…. I know I’ll hang on cause I’ve been doing these times in training and with these shoes it’s the least I can expect…..

Not sure why posted twice….sorry… must have been my vaporfly fingers

I'm with you in that I train in "regular" running shoes and races in super shoes. I'll typically wear lighter shoes for tempo runs and workouts, but so far nothing with a plate.

What I've wondered is if those who run all of their workout miles in super shoes end up with a false sense of fitness? I've heard teammates brag about the splits they've hit in workouts, their low HRs while working out, and that their legs still feel fresh after the workout. That seems kind of silly to me since the body doesn't know pace (only effort), so if your heart rate is lower and you're not stressing your legs, are you really providing an adequate stimulus for your body?

Ok, but how can I give you me email without writting it down here in such a way that everybody will have access to it ? I don't mind giving it to you, but I want my email to stay private and not public (on a message board for everyone) ?

I think there's benefits and drawbacks to both - with super shoes you can get a bigger aerobic stress since your legs don't take as much of a beating. You can also run faster in workouts which may have some benefits given many pros at altitude like to do key workouts at lower elevations.

At the same time I do think you can lose some leg strength over time, especially in the calf / foot since they aren't stressed as much. Because of this I like doing around half of my workouts in super shoes and half in flats / spikes.

Using faster shoes will not make you lose fitness, but you ought to pick your shoe rotation carefully. In my opinion, the Tempo Next% is a bit of a miss, but the Vaporfly Next% is one of the greatest faster shoe to ever grace the market. I'm a college runner as well, and I typically rotate two or three daily trainers, a long run shoe, a workout shoe, and a recovery shoe.

Currently, I'm rotating the Nike Vomero & On Cloudmonster for daily trainers. the Saucony Endorphin Speed for long runs, the ASICS Metaspeed Sky for my workouts, and the Nike ZoomX Invincible for recovery runs. This rotation works extremely well for me. I also sometimes use the Nike Infinity and On Cloudstratus for easy miles and doubles.

That, and the spelling of ankles.

You improve running economy if running at same speed as race pase or faster, but not slower. Good to train in the fastest shoes possible.

This is how I've been doing my recent buildup for the marathon. Did one Long Run in my race day shoes, and did a tempo yesterday in a supershoe. Otherwise rest of tempos, intervals, and long runs in Boston 8s. I do like the impact psychologically.

Is there a physical advantage to supershoes for all your workouts and long runs allowing you to do more high-intensity days? Maybe. But I just bought Adios 6's for 84 bucks, and they'll last me 500 miles as opposed to doling out 225 or more twice in that span to hit 500 miles with a supershoe as the go-to workout shoe. Not being cheap, just doesn't seem worth it.

I’ll be 100% honest…. I was a decent runner as a young guy, decided to try and break the 3 hour barrier as an old 38 year old after 17 years of never running….Did all my training at trying to break 3 hours, using calculators for half pace, 10k pace etc….using Pegasus 34s daily and for long runs and streakflys for faster stuff on track…. I always hit Marathon pace about 10 seconds slower on my long mp runs but was able to hit all paces on my intervals…. Yes I know these times are slow… but it is what it is….. Got to race day, tried the original 4%….. hit 2:53…. Obviously after taper but it was almost spot on…( meaning it did improve my performance about 4%…..

so since then I’ve just thought…. F it…. I’m gonna train in normal shoes, train for 2:24… as I’ve hit a few other times doing the same thing and think I’ve got an advantage when I train using normal shoes, hit race day, and my legs feel fresh as F when I hit 32k

Sorry not Streakflys…. Zoom Streaks I meant to say

thread bump cause I had big trouble finding it earlier. still want grantkaminer 's research.

I can't see any reason to wear supershoes for training unless you are wealthy. Even then, the vaporflies are not meant to be used for slower running. They feel uncomfortable.

I do intervals and tempos in reebok floatrides and they are absolutely fine and only weigh mid 7oz...

yes and no

running uphill is biased towards building cardiovascular fitness at the cost of running specific strength due to decreased ground impact

running downhill is biased towards building running specific strength at the cost of cardiovascular fitness because forward momentum is aided by gravity

spikes for the longest time, and more recently super shoes work by creating mechanical leverage, so they fall into the 'downhill' category

relatively regular shoes than fall into the 'uphill' category because there is less mechanical leverage and more 02 consumption is needed while running

so it depends on what type of runner you are and what your training goals and races are like