3*800 in 1:55 solo with 3:00 rest ? That's the kind of workout I would expect from a 3:50 miler. I'm a 3:50 1500m runner and there is no way I could do 3*800 alone at 1500m pace (2:04) with only 3:00 rest.
Right, I figured someone would probably point that out. Lemme clarify.
Yes, in my mind 3 x 1:55 with 3 min would be for 3:50 miler, or about 3:33 1500. And 3 x 1:58 would be for a 3:39 guy. And yes, 3 x 2:04 for 3:50 1500m.
IIRC Spencer has run a 3:39, and he *wants* to improve on that time. That's why I said that I'd think that he'd *want to* run that workout somewhere between 1:55-58, *depending on where he's at*.
But I also wouldn't expect a miler to be running 3 x 800 in March (maybe a 400m runner preparing for summer meets). As I understand it -- not an expert -- this is a late-season workout, like running 3 x 400m with 4-5 min for an 800m runner, or 3 x 300m with 8-10 min for a 400m runner.
Part of why I'm confused by Spencer's workout is not just the pace, but also the timing of it. 3 x 800 r3? Slow pace with fast finish? in March? I don’t get it.
Not being critical in a negative way. Spencer is fun to watch, and that's great for the sport. I hope he gets faster over the next 2-3 years, or decides soon to move up in distance. I don't think 5000 is necessarily for him, but I could see him focusing on 3000m.
Sure, it's rarely run outdoors. But he doesn't have to conform to the typical yearly cycle, does he? He could build his training around the indoor season for, say 3-4 years, get progressively faster at 3000m, and then for a couple of years he could aim to run fast 3Ks at peak effort at outdoor meets where available.
After that, he could get off the track and run on the roads for 4-6+ years, aiming for the USA 15K/20K/25K/10mi races and the big goal being to make the team for the World Half Marathon Champs.
Just some wild out-of-the-box thoughts, ha! What do you say, TAS? Your followers could get on board and stick with you.
I don’t see this as a late season workout at all. I see this as an early season confidence booster type workout and a litmus test of where he is and where he needs to be, fitness.
The 1:55 off of no speed workout and after 2 x 2:04 800 meter repeats is a nice confidence booster.
a true test or prediction workout of his intended goal of 3:37 would be 3 x 800 averaging 2 flat or faster. Can he do the first 2 repeats at 2 flat and THEN do the last in 1:55? Now we’re talking.
also there’s no way he will try to compete on the road circuit for anything over 10k. He has trouble doing even 60 mile weeks
Right, I figured someone would probably point that out. Lemme clarify.
Yes, in my mind 3 x 1:55 with 3 min would be for 3:50 miler, or about 3:33 1500. And 3 x 1:58 would be for a 3:39 guy. And yes, 3 x 2:04 for 3:50 1500m.
IIRC Spencer has run a 3:39, and he *wants* to improve on that time. That's why I said that I'd think that he'd *want to* run that workout somewhere between 1:55-58, *depending on where he's at*.
But I also wouldn't expect a miler to be running 3 x 800 in March (maybe a 400m runner preparing for summer meets). As I understand it -- not an expert -- this is a late-season workout, like running 3 x 400m with 4-5 min for an 800m runner, or 3 x 300m with 8-10 min for a 400m runner.
Part of why I'm confused by Spencer's workout is not just the pace, but also the timing of it. 3 x 800 r3? Slow pace with fast finish? in March? I don’t get it.
Not being critical in a negative way. Spencer is fun to watch, and that's great for the sport. I hope he gets faster over the next 2-3 years, or decides soon to move up in distance. I don't think 5000 is necessarily for him, but I could see him focusing on 3000m.
Sure, it's rarely run outdoors. But he doesn't have to conform to the typical yearly cycle, does he? He could build his training around the indoor season for, say 3-4 years, get progressively faster at 3000m, and then for a couple of years he could aim to run fast 3Ks at peak effort at outdoor meets where available.
After that, he could get off the track and run on the roads for 4-6+ years, aiming for the USA 15K/20K/25K/10mi races and the big goal being to make the team for the World Half Marathon Champs.
Just some wild out-of-the-box thoughts, ha! What do you say, TAS? Your followers could get on board and stick with you.
I don’t see this as a late season workout at all. I see this as an early season confidence booster type workout and a litmus test of where he is and where he needs to be, fitness.
The 1:55 off of no speed workout and after 2 x 2:04 800 meter repeats is a nice confidence booster.
a true test or prediction workout of his intended goal of 3:37 would be 3 x 800 averaging 2 flat or faster. Can he do the first 2 repeats at 2 flat and THEN do the last in 1:55? Now we’re talking.
also there’s no way he will try to compete on the road circuit for anything over 10k. He has trouble doing even 60 mile weeks
I don’t see this as much as a race prediction workout as I see it a race EFFORT workout.
most of the workouts he’s done so far are strength based/low rest. So a workout like this is good for him
If he does this once a month or something like that then next time around he should run 2:04, 2:00, then see what he can do
He doesn’t necessarily need to much sprint work, but soon he should start to do 400s in 58 and 300s in 43 to get more pop on his legs
This confusing part is that 2:04 should be incredibly easy for Athlete Special.
Let's not get carried away. I was a 3:42 guy, and 2:06 alone in workout (a rough equivalent compared to TAS's faster PR) was never "incredibly easy." That said, you're right that it's nothing to write home (or post on Letsrun) about.
Finishing in 1:55 is moderately impressive. But the goal of workouts shouldn't be to impress people (or even yourself). If this was a workout where he wanted to go to the well, he probably should have used a little more of that effort in the first two intervals. But hey, if he revisits this workout, he'll now know that he should aim to start a few seconds faster. You don't have to (and probably shouldn't) nail every workout in March.
As others have pointed out, this was not a race pace workout nor a race predictor. Since running under his dad, all of his workouts have started out conservatively. 3*800m can be a bear of a workout and the way they approached it takes the teeth out. He can now build on it and go to the next workout with a better understanding of where he is and how it feels.
I have some thoughts on the workout but I’m not gonna say anything (not that anyone really cares what I say) until he posts a YouTube video about the workout. Hopefully he has some audio of his dad/coach explaining the purpose of the workout because I really enjoy hearing coaches talk through the “why” of a workout.
I hope for his sake he didn’t sandbag the first 2 then full gas the last one because that’d be dumb
I don't think he has an inherent issue to increase mileage, I might be wrong, but I think he has some ego issues toward his dad who was a very good marathon runner, who ran 2:18 and apparently beat a champion or something (can't remember).
I think he wants to "differentiate" from his dad by being on the faster side of distance running.
Alan Webb did this workout except there were 10 of them and the last was 1:48
Nick symmind’s did this workout but it was 3x400m instead and he ran like 59,59,59 and then he runned 1:59 800m a couple days later and falled on the floor and be like “ahhh 800m make leg ouch” haha lol
Nick said you put your 3 splits together adn then divide them by 3 to get your 800m race pace so basically I’m saying that spencer can run 800m in at least 2:01 if he’s splits were FAT
As others have pointed out, this was not a race pace workout nor a race predictor. Since running under his dad, all of his workouts have started out conservatively. 3*800m can be a bear of a workout and the way they approached it takes the teeth out. He can now build on it and go to the next workout with a better understanding of where he is and how it feels.
This. Also, is it written down somewhere that all your reps in a workout have to be at some sort of race pace for it to count as a good workout? Seems like it was just a decently hard workout for him, but he could have gone faster if he paced his reps more evenly.
He just posted a pretty impressive workout on Strava
3x800m with 3:00 - 3:30 rest in between.
2:04, 2:05, 1:55.8 with a negative split.
Those are pretty short recoveries for such a tough workout
Look he is back doing what works for him and that is being coached by Athlete Special Senior. I would estimate this season he will run the 800m in 1:47, and the 1,500m in 3:37.
I don't think this workout is that crazy. I am a 3:44/4:02 1500/miler, and I feel like I could do this workout no issues. 2:00.00 800's should be comfortable for a 3:45 guy. 2:04 and 2:05 is barely faster than 3k pace.
BUT what is impressive is WHEN he is doing it in the season - barely any speed work so far. He'll be at his peak around June, so a good three months under his belt and I think he will be able to run something really quick. I hope he hits his goal of 3:37 but I am just going to go out and predict a 3:38.5 by the end of the season, which would be a nice improvement after not even breaking 3:45 last year. But who knows what will happen when he starts ripping 200's, hope I am wrong!
I don't think this workout is that crazy. I am a 3:44/4:02 1500/miler, and I feel like I could do this workout no issues. 2:00.00 800's should be comfortable for a 3:45 guy. 2:04 and 2:05 is barely faster than 3k pace.
BUT what is impressive is WHEN he is doing it in the season - barely any speed work so far. He'll be at his peak around June, so a good three months under his belt and I think he will be able to run something really quick. I hope he hits his goal of 3:37 but I am just going to go out and predict a 3:38.5 by the end of the season, which would be a nice improvement after not even breaking 3:45 last year. But who knows what will happen when he starts ripping 200's, hope I am wrong!
The 2:04 and 2:05 arent the main assets of the workout IMO, that 1:55 means a lot.
To me that’s something like 8x400m in 61-62, just about every 4:00-4:10 miler is capable of running this workout, but drop a 54 your last 2 reps and this workout just got WAY more impressive. Just to put it in the context of a more common workout.
A lot of people overanalyzing this workout, but I'll join the fun. It is 2x800@Vo2 max (~his 2400 race pace), and then one 800 that he was probably supposed to run at mile pace, but that he decided to hammer all out instead. Good sign that he was feeling good. Maybe not a great sign of discipline, but who knows as an outsider?
The rest is perfectly fine for a vo2 max workout with a hard tired-legs fitness check at the end.
I don't think this workout is that crazy. I am a 3:44/4:02 1500/miler, and I feel like I could do this workout no issues. 2:00.00 800's should be comfortable for a 3:45 guy. 2:04 and 2:05 is barely faster than 3k pace.
BUT what is impressive is WHEN he is doing it in the season - barely any speed work so far. He'll be at his peak around June, so a good three months under his belt and I think he will be able to run something really quick. I hope he hits his goal of 3:37 but I am just going to go out and predict a 3:38.5 by the end of the season, which would be a nice improvement after not even breaking 3:45 last year. But who knows what will happen when he starts ripping 200's, hope I am wrong!
Exactly, it's an easy workout for a guy that has run 3:39, 1:49 and 49low (his 400 time is from high school). It's two easy 800s and then a decent 800.
I think the slow-twitch mafia is obsessed with the 1:55.9. It's not impressive for a 1:49 runner with 49-48 second 400 speed. His two previous 800s would not really tire him out for this fast rep. I understand that most of you can't even get close to 1:55 fresh, but still it's not impressive at all.
Spencer does all his workouts in carbon fiber shoes and carbon fiber spikes, which makes this significantly easier.
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