The guy is 3k/5k guy and you are giving him marathon training.
With your logic, then everyone is giving him marathon training. What dictates marathon training from 3k/5k training? He asked for "80-85mi per week" and that's exactly what everyone here is doing. Did you read 80-85MILES?
Snell was an 800/1500 guy and he was doing far more than 80-85mpw with 20 mile runs regularly.
To give a good answer, one has to know at least three things.
1. Which race are you promarily traing for?
2. Current training? What is your current mileage, the longest run you currently do. and if you have successfully done doubles in the past? Are you used to running everyday? What is the longest weekly mileage you have done in your running career.
3. Any injuries or knick knacks? Are you prone to injuries with certain workouts.
Without knowing that. I will say the easiest way is to do double workouts at least 3 days of the week. Increasing one's long run is also important but one has to err on the side of caution when doing this.
Typically increase the long run every other week. So let's say, your long run is 12, you can increase to 14 at a slightly slower pace especially at the beginning of the run. Then the next week, you decrease to 13 but at a better pace. Then the following week you can increase to 15, starting slowly.
With doubles, it may definitely make sense to start with doing them every other day, with a two day stretch of just one workout, and on the first of those two days, the long run.
The devil is always going to be in the details on making this happen without injuries. It's how you ramp up to that 80 miles that is going to make the difference. You may even want to do a little push pull. Where you increase the total miles every other week. Same concept as increasing the long run.
Then comes the part most runners hate. You have to work on your core strength. You have to warm up properly. You have to practice good recovery modalities. Easiest are slow stretching after working out. Self massage, at least some rolling,. Ice baths, proper fueling before workouts and protein after workouts to help muscles recover. I reccomend EAA's before and after workouts and Casein protein before bed. And of course you have to get sufficient sleep.
You may also want to start many of your workouts a little slower and build up as the workouts progress. Good luck.
Unless you’re training for the marathon, no need for long runs. You could follow the same basic week (like the “complex system” of Deek) and just modify the quality workouts as you near your peak race. Error on the side of caution for the “peak” phase of race specific workouts and limit to just 4-6 weeks (unless you’ve proven to yourself you can handle a longer phase of super intense, more “anaerobic/vo2 max type sessions).
Most of the year, you could focus on progressing three different sessions: speed reps, threshold reps, steady runs. The days in between keep as a consistent double and just let pace come to you; but while no longer the popular opinion, it is ok to let these recovery runs progress to a solid pace as you get fitter if you’re not also continuing to add more mileage. If you’ve proven to yourself you can handle 75-85 miles per week, stick in that range and let your fitness bring the average daily pace from maybe a super easy jog to steadier runs over the weeks and months.
Keep the week the same and just let pace and intensity come to you with fitness all the way up until the last few weeks before a key race. Then, switch over to the classic “anaerobic workouts” to be race ready (here I mean anaerobic in the same way Lydiard defined it, workouts that being you into oxygen debt, I.e. vo2 workouts). You’ll find that these sessions may be more intense but actually reduce the total training load and can also serve as a gradual taper if done in line with the old school periodization recommendations of Tudor Bompa (ie progressively make sessions more intense as you reduce the total volume…)
*one thing to mention as an aside, there is research that there is a sweet spot for run durations on easy days around 40-50 minutes. Initially, as aerobic exercise duration increases, there is an increase in hormones that promote anabolism and recovery like HGH, but this increase eventually levels off. Coincidentally, this is around the same time that the catabolic hormones like cortisol start to rise. So ideally, you’d want to run enough to increase the anabolic response without causing a huge increase in the catabolic response. good research cited from Steve Magness on this here, . I wouldn’t get too obsessive over the details of specific duration but rather just bring this to light as a concept to recommend that you divide up doubles evenly versus one longer run and one shorter run for easy days.
Basic Week:
Monday: Easy Double (AM- 5 ; PM -5)
Tuesday: threshold workout—> Long Intervals:
7 x 1 mile @ half marathon to 10k effort with 400 jog recovery (2-3 minutes)
*get in 13-15 miles total in one workout or with a double
Wednesday: same as Monday
Thursday: Speed Workout—> I’d recommend you do this as a hill session progressing the intensity, good example being:
8 x 60 second hills at ~5k effort + 8 x 40 seconds at ~mile effort + 8 x 20 seconds at ~800 effort * get in 13-15 miles total in one workout or with a double
Friday: same as Monday
Saturday: Steady Run —> 10-12 miles at a sub threshold effort continuous. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND you do this on a hilly course to get additional strength and will also serve as a better way to promote lactate shuttle as you’re internal effort will vary between the ups and downs even with a steady pace. Don’t over do it on this session… *get in 15 miles total.
Sunday: same as Monday
**once you’re ready to peak, I’d recommend Tuesday session follow a similar progression to what Joe Vigil outlines in his book and have just modified slightly to keep it open ended depending on how long your “peak phase” for anaerobic/vo2 sessions would last. This is the progression and repeat steps one and two for 2-3 weeks for longer phase:
1) Two week of 2 mile TT + 4 x 1 mile at 2 mile TT speed
2) 2 mile TT + 2 x 1 mile FASTER than 2 mile TT speed
3) 2 mile TT + 1 mile all out
4) 1 mile all out
During the peak phase, I’d keep the Thursday session in the mix but under control and then try to race or do a harder short tempo/time trial on Saturday.
If this phase seems intense, it should and hence why I’d recommend only doing for 4-6 weeks.
I ran about 80 miles this week. PR's similar to yours:
MON - 9.5 miles TUE - 9 miles AM (4 x Mile @ Threshold workout), 4 miles PM WED - 10 miles THU - 9 miles w 6 x 200m FRI - 11 miles AM (5K RP workout), 4.5 miles PM SAT - 7 miles SUN - 16 miles
Once I get up to about 80 miles I'll typically double twice a week, always on a workout day when I can
I have done 80-90mpw every summer before XC. Heres how I did it: Mon- AM 4-6mi shakeout, PM 10mi easy Tues- AM 4-6mi shakeout, PM speed workout(400s, 200s) Wed- 10mi, easy Thurs- AM long workout(mile repeats, 1Ks, 800s), PM 4-6mi shakeout Fri- 10mi easy Sat- 18-20mi long run Sun- 5-10mi easy
I have done 80-90mpw every summer before XC. Heres how I did it: Mon- AM 4-6mi shakeout, PM 10mi easy Tues- AM 4-6mi shakeout, PM speed workout(400s, 200s) Wed- 10mi, easy Thurs- AM long workout(mile repeats, 1Ks, 800s), PM 4-6mi shakeout Fri- 10mi easy Sat- 18-20mi long run Sun- 5-10mi easy
I usually double like 3 times a week for a total of 10-12 miles and then just run an average of 10 miles a day at practice. Sometimes this means just a 10 mile easy run or it's adding in a longer cool down or warm up for a workout. Some days the workout is long and I earn an 8 mile run the next day.
Unless you’re training for the marathon, no need for long runs. You could follow the same basic week (like the “complex system” of Deek) and just modify the quality workouts as you near your peak race. Error on the side of caution for the “peak” phase of race specific workouts and limit to just 4-6 weeks (unless you’ve proven to yourself you can handle a longer phase of super intense, more “anaerobic/vo2 max type sessions).
Most of the year, you could focus on progressing three different sessions: speed reps, threshold reps, steady runs. The days in between keep as a consistent double and just let pace come to you; but while no longer the popular opinion, it is ok to let these recovery runs progress to a solid pace as you get fitter if you’re not also continuing to add more mileage. If you’ve proven to yourself you can handle 75-85 miles per week, stick in that range and let your fitness bring the average daily pace from maybe a super easy jog to steadier runs over the weeks and months.
Keep the week the same and just let pace and intensity come to you with fitness all the way up until the last few weeks before a key race. Then, switch over to the classic “anaerobic workouts” to be race ready (here I mean anaerobic in the same way Lydiard defined it, workouts that being you into oxygen debt, I.e. vo2 workouts). You’ll find that these sessions may be more intense but actually reduce the total training load and can also serve as a gradual taper if done in line with the old school periodization recommendations of Tudor Bompa (ie progressively make sessions more intense as you reduce the total volume…)
*one thing to mention as an aside, there is research that there is a sweet spot for run durations on easy days around 40-50 minutes. Initially, as aerobic exercise duration increases, there is an increase in hormones that promote anabolism and recovery like HGH, but this increase eventually levels off. Coincidentally, this is around the same time that the catabolic hormones like cortisol start to rise. So ideally, you’d want to run enough to increase the anabolic response without causing a huge increase in the catabolic response. good research cited from Steve Magness on this here, . I wouldn’t get too obsessive over the details of specific duration but rather just bring this to light as a concept to recommend that you divide up doubles evenly versus one longer run and one shorter run for easy days.
Basic Week:
Monday: Easy Double (AM- 5 ; PM -5)
Tuesday: threshold workout—> Long Intervals:
7 x 1 mile @ half marathon to 10k effort with 400 jog recovery (2-3 minutes)
*get in 13-15 miles total in one workout or with a double
Wednesday: same as Monday
Thursday: Speed Workout—> I’d recommend you do this as a hill session progressing the intensity, good example being:
8 x 60 second hills at ~5k effort + 8 x 40 seconds at ~mile effort + 8 x 20 seconds at ~800 effort * get in 13-15 miles total in one workout or with a double
Friday: same as Monday
Saturday: Steady Run —> 10-12 miles at a sub threshold effort continuous. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND you do this on a hilly course to get additional strength and will also serve as a better way to promote lactate shuttle as you’re internal effort will vary between the ups and downs even with a steady pace. Don’t over do it on this session… *get in 15 miles total.
Sunday: same as Monday
**once you’re ready to peak, I’d recommend Tuesday session follow a similar progression to what Joe Vigil outlines in his book and have just modified slightly to keep it open ended depending on how long your “peak phase” for anaerobic/vo2 sessions would last. This is the progression and repeat steps one and two for 2-3 weeks for longer phase:
1) Two week of 2 mile TT + 4 x 1 mile at 2 mile TT speed
2) 2 mile TT + 2 x 1 mile FASTER than 2 mile TT speed
3) 2 mile TT + 1 mile all out
4) 1 mile all out
During the peak phase, I’d keep the Thursday session in the mix but under control and then try to race or do a harder short tempo/time trial on Saturday.
If this phase seems intense, it should and hence why I’d recommend only doing for 4-6 weeks.
80mpw is at your average training pace (around 06:30 miles/km) about 8.5h/week training. So it depends if you do one rest day per week and what race you train for.
Sorry, wrong thread. How did you structure it in the end? What is your racing goal? That will make a difference (regarding whether you want speed work in there and so on).
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