Well said. The highest vo2’s ever recorded typically comes out of xc skiing.
This. If you compared Klaebo to say Hocker, it wouldn't even be close how much higher Klaebo's vo2 max would be. There is a big gap between the #1 group (cross country skiers) and the 2nd and 3rd group (runners and cyclists).
And if Hocker skis for 2 years and then you test his vo2max it will right there with the skiers... Runners have lower vo2maxes because they have much more passive upper body muscles. Start recruiting those muscles and have them burn oxygen, vo2max goes up.
This. If you compared Klaebo to say Hocker, it wouldn't even be close how much higher Klaebo's vo2 max would be. There is a big gap between the #1 group (cross country skiers) and the 2nd and 3rd group (runners and cyclists).
And if Hocker skis for 2 years and then you test his vo2max it will right there with the skiers... Runners have lower vo2maxes because they have much more passive upper body muscles. Start recruiting those muscles and have them burn oxygen, vo2max goes up.
One has to grow up skiing. You wouldn't dare assume C. Hocker, while in his twenties could all of a sudden develop neurological coordination to be a great violinist, a great M.L.B. batter or great N.B.A. player. Two years, no. Some MN high school skiers have overlapping success as all conference Nordic skiers and all conference XC runners. Often, the best skiers significantly are thicker and heavier than most runners. When I say runners, I mean 3000m and longer.
And if Hocker skis for 2 years and then you test his vo2max it will right there with the skiers... Runners have lower vo2maxes because they have much more passive upper body muscles. Start recruiting those muscles and have them burn oxygen, vo2max goes up.
One has to grow up skiing. You wouldn't dare assume C. Hocker, while in his twenties could all of a sudden develop neurological coordination to be a great violinist, a great M.L.B. batter or great N.B.A. player. Two years, no. Some MN high school skiers have overlapping success as all conference Nordic skiers and all conference XC runners. Often, the best skiers significantly are thicker and heavier than most runners. When I say runners, I mean 3000m and longer.
2 years is plenty to get the vo2max changes. Heck his lack of efficiency will probably result in a higher vo2max.
Obviously race results will be hurt by poor efficiency. He would be like Lance Armstrong running a marathon. Big engine but an inability to get that power to the road.
One has to grow up skiing. You wouldn't dare assume C. Hocker, while in his twenties could all of a sudden develop neurological coordination to be a great violinist, a great M.L.B. batter or great N.B.A. player. Two years, no. Some MN high school skiers have overlapping success as all conference Nordic skiers and all conference XC runners. Often, the best skiers significantly are thicker and heavier than most runners. When I say runners, I mean 3000m and longer.
2 years is plenty to get the vo2max changes. Heck his lack of efficiency will probably result in a higher vo2max.
Obviously race results will be hurt by poor efficiency. He would be like Lance Armstrong running a marathon. Big engine but an inability to get that power to the road.
He wouldn't come close. There are no road or track runners high up on the all time vo2 max list. Not El G, not Bekele, not Kipchoge. They don't come close to skiers. They aren't even higher than cyclists. It would also take way more than 2 years for him to get even remotely good and skiing whereas I'd bet Klaebo can show up at a track tomorrow and run a mile in under 430.
This. If you compared Klaebo to say Hocker, it wouldn't even be close how much higher Klaebo's vo2 max would be. There is a big gap between the #1 group (cross country skiers) and the 2nd and 3rd group (runners and cyclists).
And if Hocker skis for 2 years and then you test his vo2max it will right there with the skiers... Runners have lower vo2maxes because they have much more passive upper body muscles. Start recruiting those muscles and have them burn oxygen, vo2max goes up.
One of the problems with your assumption is that the whole denominator of vo2 is weight. When athletes add the muscle required for skiing their vo2 numbers go down not up. An athletes default build really needs to be setup for skiing not running at the highest levels.
Another problem is that running economy doesn’t really translate either. That bounce in the running stride that separates top runners is a non factor. Top cyclists tend to be horrible runners as they really lack in this area.
Then you have the problem that not everyone has the right upper body fiber types to be good.
Finally you have technique, which can take years to master. It is the same problem of why very few runners can cross over in to triathlon and be elite. Learning to swim is just too hard even if you have the prerequisite build, flexibility, and muscle composition. It can happen, but it is relatively rare.
Why is everyone so obsessed with Vo2Max. When I was a senior in college my XC team did a Vo2 max test. Some of the worst kids on our team had the highest vo2 max and our best guy was towards the middle of the team. I don’t think that’s the end all be all in determining endurance performances as none of the kids that tested higher ever sniffed the PRs of our best guy.
Why is everyone so obsessed with Vo2Max. When I was a senior in college my XC team did a Vo2 max test. Some of the worst kids on our team had the highest vo2 max and our best guy was towards the middle of the team. I don’t think that’s the end all be all in determining endurance performances as none of the kids that tested higher ever sniffed the PRs of our best guy.
I agree it's not the only factor. There's economy and endurance and power/strength depending on the event. The point here seems to be about sheer aerobic power, and in that context there is no contest that the top cross country skiiers have higher aerobic engines than the top runners. The top runners are even lower than the top cyclists.
It’s very tough to learn good form unless you start young. But yea, muscular miler types who weren’t the best in the world might in retrospect have been better at Nordic skiing if they had dedicated their lives to it. Alan Webb and Craig Mottram for example might have been better at Nordic skiing if they had gone for it from a young age
This is the answer, I think. I grew up in a state that has high school XC skiing. The team was basically the same as the XC running team, and the sport is scored similar, even has a "top seven" as varsity aspect. A lot of the top seven was the same in both, but always in a different order. As you say, that often entailed a guy with the "big miler" build who'd be fifth on the running ladder being first or second in the skiing ladder. There would always be one or two guys who really were skiers first and foremost who could never crack the running top 7 but could be up-front on the ski team, and these guys were usually bigger guys as well. Then there was me who was the top runner and managed my last two years to sneak onto the skiing varsity as the seventh man. My 2-miler's (college 10k runner's) engine could take me to the seventh spot, but my poor form kept me from going any higher.
For those unfamiliar, there were also two "styles" of skiing, classic and skating. Regular season meets would be either one or the other, so on top of the whole "6/7 guy in runner but 1/2 in skiing" or vice versa aspect, you'd also have guys who could be top 7 in one style race but not in the other style race the following week. The postseason meets you did both, a few hours apart, so the specialists weren't usually on the final varsity roster.
2 years is plenty to get the vo2max changes. Heck his lack of efficiency will probably result in a higher vo2max.
Obviously race results will be hurt by poor efficiency. He would be like Lance Armstrong running a marathon. Big engine but an inability to get that power to the road.
He wouldn't come close. There are no road or track runners high up on the all time vo2 max list. Not El G, not Bekele, not Kipchoge. They don't come close to skiers. They aren't even higher than cyclists. It would also take way more than 2 years for him to get even remotely good and skiing whereas I'd bet Klaebo can show up at a track tomorrow and run a mile in under 430.
We aren't talking about ski performance. We are talking about having a high vo2max. Vo2max depends on the mode of exercise. Test those skiers running and they have the same vo2maxes as runners. They are slow runners cause their efficiency sucks
430 is a good time for a 14 year old. I wouldnt be shocked to see a lot of them down at 410. You know like a good high schooler and a long way from world class. I wouldn't be shocked if elite distance guys are in the same boat after a few years of training. Much better than most but well below national class.
He wouldn't come close. There are no road or track runners high up on the all time vo2 max list. Not El G, not Bekele, not Kipchoge. They don't come close to skiers. They aren't even higher than cyclists. It would also take way more than 2 years for him to get even remotely good and skiing whereas I'd bet Klaebo can show up at a track tomorrow and run a mile in under 430.
We aren't talking about ski performance. We are talking about having a high vo2max. Vo2max depends on the mode of exercise. Test those skiers running and they have the same vo2maxes as runners. They are slow runners cause their efficiency sucks
430 is a good time for a 14 year old. I wouldnt be shocked to see a lot of them down at 410. You know like a good high schooler and a long way from world class. I wouldn't be shocked if elite distance guys are in the same boat after a few years of training. Much better than most but well below national class.
I don't think it depends on the mode of exercise at all. It's their max Vo2 regardless of what they are doing. If the skier went running his Vo2 max would transfer to that activity. It's the same as how the runner's max would be limited if he were to ski compared to the skier. The skier will always have the higher Vo2 max on average.
#track #trackandfield #runningThe skirunner Therese Johaug is back on the track with her second 10km run!Finishing with a time of 31:40 does she beat her per...
He wouldn't come close. There are no road or track runners high up on the all time vo2 max list. Not El G, not Bekele, not Kipchoge. They don't come close to skiers. They aren't even higher than cyclists. It would also take way more than 2 years for him to get even remotely good and skiing whereas I'd bet Klaebo can show up at a track tomorrow and run a mile in under 430.
We aren't talking about ski performance. We are talking about having a high vo2max. Vo2max depends on the mode of exercise. Test those skiers running and they have the same vo2maxes as runners. They are slow runners cause their efficiency sucks
430 is a good time for a 14 year old. I wouldnt be shocked to see a lot of them down at 410. You know like a good high schooler and a long way from world class. I wouldn't be shocked if elite distance guys are in the same boat after a few years of training. Much better than most but well below national class.
Wrong. World class XC Skiers have a naturally larger muscle mass, lung capacity and Cardiac capacity than World class runners.
The answer is usually no unless the college athlete had some experience of skiing at a young age. Cross country skiing is a technique sport and technique sports require people to learn the technique when they are young in order to master the technique and I don’t think there’s any way around that. Vincent Vittoz, from France, became a world champion in cross country skiing but in the skating variety of skiing which is less technique based compared with classic style and he had a background in ice-hockey before taking up cross country skiing in his late teens.
You've got this completely bass-ackwards. It's the skating style of xc skiing which is far more technically nuanced and difficult to learn, not the classic style. Classic style is a fast and gliding shuffle more akin to snowshoeing, whereas the skate style, as its name implies, is basically speed skating on skis....which is why a hockey player like Vittoz was able to excel at the discipline fairly quickly.
Deedra Irwin just did a great job in the Olympic biathlon, but I wouldn't put her running skills near the top echelon. However, she's obviously a much better skier than runner, so that argues no direct relationship between being good in one and good in the other.
The answer is usually no unless the college athlete had some experience of skiing at a young age. Cross country skiing is a technique sport and technique sports require people to learn the technique when they are young in order to master the technique and I don’t think there’s any way around that. Vincent Vittoz, from France, became a world champion in cross country skiing but in the skating variety of skiing which is less technique based compared with classic style and he had a background in ice-hockey before taking up cross country skiing in his late teens.
You've got this completely bass-ackwards. It's the skating style of xc skiing which is far more technically nuanced and difficult to learn, not the classic style. Classic style is a fast and gliding shuffle more akin to snowshoeing, whereas the skate style, as its name implies, is basically speed skating on skis....which is why a hockey player like Vittoz was able to excel at the discipline fairly quickly.
Snowshoeing? Basically speed skating on skis? We got a real expert on our hands, boys 💪
Classic technique requires a lot more coordination, timing and specific strength. If you are sloppy in technique, you miss your kick. Even double pole technique is complicated. You can see a broad variance in proficiency on the World Cup bc classic is so hard to master. With skating, i think it is more crucial to have a big engine..
We aren't talking about ski performance. We are talking about having a high vo2max. Vo2max depends on the mode of exercise. Test those skiers running and they have the same vo2maxes as runners. They are slow runners cause their efficiency sucks
430 is a good time for a 14 year old. I wouldnt be shocked to see a lot of them down at 410. You know like a good high schooler and a long way from world class. I wouldn't be shocked if elite distance guys are in the same boat after a few years of training. Much better than most but well below national class.
I don't think it depends on the mode of exercise at all. It's their max Vo2 regardless of what they are doing. If the skier went running his Vo2 max would transfer to that activity. It's the same as how the runner's max would be limited if he were to ski compared to the skier. The skier will always have the higher Vo2 max on average.
So you think if you measured the vo2max of an XC skier using an arm erg they would get the same exact vo2max as when they are skiing? After all the mode of exercise doesn't matter so the skier should be able to consume the same amount of oxygen just using their arm muscles as when they are using both their arm and leg muscles....
How much would you be willing to bet on being right?🤣
