That's a different take on running the 800 compared to what I've seen. I actually have ran a 2:02 only once before while training on my own before college and my splits were 30, 31, 31, 30. But the type of training I was doing different too. I believe if I ran faster than a 30 I would've had a slower time, but i dunno. I'm not the most efficient runner.
I was doing many strength related workouts. A lot of 600m repeats. I walked on to my college's team and this program is so different from what I did on my own.
The reason it is a different "take" is that neither HRE nor Barry Magee were 800 runners or coaches. They were marathoners. If you are a marathoner that advice makes decent sense. I have been both and have run the 800 many different ways as have my athletes. For a 400/800 type, even splits are almost never going to yield the fastest overall time.
I agree, but as an 800 guy before I had found myself in a slump, so one day my coach had me do something similar. Go out slow and kick down in a low key 800. I got the win by 7 seconds and suddenly felt my competitive side was back, like I learned the 800 better from doing it different.
For one thing, 52-53 for relay carry means 53-54 for open, which is insufficient for a 400/800 type to break 2:00.
Expecting to break 2:00 on such mediocre 400 times, light training, low mileage (mileage is only one consideration, but 20 miles in winter is too low for most). How could you not feel "great", as you are hardly doing any work? If you aren't willing to put in the work, stick to the 400 and work on that until you get some maturity and base under you. Sorry, but the numbers don't lie (one reason I love our sport!)
I’m going to rephrase this in a less douchey way.
Although I do agree that you’d wanna be a 50-52 guy to break 2:00 off of that small of workout volume. 52-53 relay is plenty to break 2:00, this guy has a stick up his butt. I have a teammate that runs 53 high and has ran 1:56.
I’d see what you could do to add volume to the workouts themselves, 4x200m at 600mish pace won’t do a whole lot for your 800m if you are supplementing that with only 15 miles of easy running a week.
see if you can do something more like 8x200m in 28-28.5 off of 2 minutes rest, let it get a bit lactic. Then do some more moderate track work like 8-12x400m working from 1:15 to 1:10 with only a minute or so rest.
This is good advice, I was 25.00 for 200m, 53+ for 400m, but better and 3000m and 3000m s/c. I ran 1:57.5 for 800m and did a lot like the session described her 8 (or I sometimes did 10) x 200m in around 28 sec with 200m jog recovery.
The thing is practicing getting very relaxed at that type of pace. They should feel like segments of an 800m race not 8 sprints.
A hard and painful session that practices lactate tolerance is something like 3 sets of 4x150m with the last 100m hard. Walk back recovery between runs, lap slow jog between sets. You wouldn't want to do this too often, but it does get you used to the feeling of the last 100m of an 800m.
That's a different take on running the 800 compared to what I've seen. I actually have ran a 2:02 only once before while training on my own before college and my splits were 30, 31, 31, 30. But the type of training I was doing different too. I believe if I ran faster than a 30 I would've had a slower time, but i dunno. I'm not the most efficient runner.
I was doing many strength related workouts. A lot of 600m repeats. I walked on to my college's team and this program is so different from what I did on my own.
The reason it is a different "take" is that neither HRE nor Barry Magee were 800 runners or coaches. They were marathoners. If you are a marathoner that advice makes decent sense. I have been both and have run the 800 many different ways as have my athletes. For a 400/800 type, even splits are almost never going to yield the fastest overall time.
Neither of us were 800 runners but we've both coached some. A guy with a 2:01 best is asking for trouble starting out at a 1:52 pace.
The reason it is a different "take" is that neither HRE nor Barry Magee were 800 runners or coaches. They were marathoners. If you are a marathoner that advice makes decent sense. I have been both and have run the 800 many different ways as have my athletes. For a 400/800 type, even splits are almost never going to yield the fastest overall time.
I agree, but as an 800 guy before I had found myself in a slump, so one day my coach had me do something similar. Go out slow and kick down in a low key 800. I got the win by 7 seconds and suddenly felt my competitive side was back, like I learned the 800 better from doing it different.
As I said, I have run the 800 many ways, and negative splits are great under some circumstances, like yours. But you will not see records being set that way, unless you are Jim Ryun in 1966:
In light of Ryun's comments about feeling sick and weak affecting his pacing, note that Wottle's famous 1972 gold medal race (which looks negative split but was actually even splits while everyone else hammered the first lap) was partly a result of his concern for an injury he was nursing.
I agree, but as an 800 guy before I had found myself in a slump, so one day my coach had me do something similar. Go out slow and kick down in a low key 800. I got the win by 7 seconds and suddenly felt my competitive side was back, like I learned the 800 better from doing it different.
As I said, I have run the 800 many ways, and negative splits are great under some circumstances, like yours. But you will not see records being set that way, unless you are Jim Ryun in 1966:
In light of Ryun's comments about feeling sick and weak affecting his pacing, note that Wottle's famous 1972 gold medal race (which looks negative split but was actually even splits while everyone else hammered the first lap) was partly a result of his concern for an injury he was nursing.
I had a talk about the 800 record with Lydiard right before he died so the record would have been 1:41.1 then. He thought the 800 record was weak and should have been under 1:40. He thought the problem was that everyone tried to get it with positive splits and that if someone with real fitness opened with 50 he'd be able to come back with a 49. We may never know.
You are right, we may never know. Snell was a real outlier as far as training for the 800, although Crammie did well on relatively high mileage as well. I seriously doubt that Rudisha would have run sub-1:40 on a steady diet of 100 mph, but as you said...
I think that high mileage would crush Brazier mentally, so we have to consider that aspect as well. This individual aspect is a big part of why I find the 800 so fun to both coach and compete.
You are right, we may never know. Snell was a real outlier as far as training for the 800, although Crammie did well on relatively high mileage as well. I seriously doubt that Rudisha would have run sub-1:40 on a steady diet of 100 mph, but as you said...
I think that high mileage would crush Brazier mentally, so we have to consider that aspect as well. This individual aspect is a big part of why I find the 800 so fun to both coach and compete.
Unless something really changes I doubt we'll see many, if any, 100 mile a week 800 specialists. But that doesn't mean some of them couldn't improve if they ran more. Ralph Doubell used to say that the reason his Australian record stood for so long was because none of the Aussies trying to break it were running the mileage he'd done. When Arthur and I had that talk he said generally that if you took a guy who could run 45 for the 400 and got him to do some decent mileage he could get under 1:40. But he did not specifically say that hypothetical guy would need 100 mile weeks or 20 mile runs. Anyway, the OP is a long way from either.