Molly is a fantastic runner and has accomplished so much. But 2:20 is not marathon pace for her. Her PR is around 2:24:40 or so. Billl Parcells famously said you are what your record (time) say it is. She can't claim 2:20 is marathon pace when she has only run 2:24:40. It would be like Parker Stinson (whose marathon PR is around 2:11) running a half in 1:03 and claiming that he was running marathon pace.
I hope one day she runs 2:20 or faster but she can't claim 2:20 until she runs it.
Don’t be ridiculous. Her half PR is 1:08:30 or so. So her goal was to go out at roughly marathon effort and practice fueling untapered on a high mileage week. She ended up running a solid effort that was between PR half marathon and PR marathon effort but on a faster course than she set her PR marathon…close enough to marathon effort.
Pretty sure it's a super fast course too (net downhill). I'm sure she could have ripped something faster. Said it was a chance to practice MP + fueling.
Molly is a fantastic runner and has accomplished so much. But 2:20 is not marathon pace for her. Her PR is around 2:24:40 or so. Billl Parcells famously said you are what your record (time) say it is. She can't claim 2:20 is marathon pace when she has only run 2:24:40. It would be like Parker Stinson (whose marathon PR is around 2:11) running a half in 1:03 and claiming that he was running marathon pace.
This is a slight downhill course. 180 feet i believe. Point to point. Not a single uphill. Weather is perfect. It's definitely MP for her given the conditions. If she ran a marathon in these conditions(not record eligible at all)she'd run sub 2:20 on a bad day.
Molly is gonna have a mental breakdown soon the pressure to run a fast time is gonna eat her up
I bet her mind can handle it. Odds are her body will fail again within a year and 1/2. If we want to get vicious, she's probably already beating the odds vrs injury. Traveling on borrowed time. Hope she's careful and not riding the hype train. What sort of tests does she take to predict her bones are in the clear? Is there any way they could be?
The keywords friend are "she said". Newsflash: People talk "stuff" all the time, doesn't mean it's true. You've never said something for effect?
Both Sandy P and 'Molly Miss Golly' really struggling with the idea of someone *trying to run faster*
Either two very jealous people, or two villages are missing their idiots. Maybe both.
No. I deal in facts. Until she has run 2:20 her marathon pace is 2:24:41. She may be striving for 2:20 in the future but that is not her marathon pace until she has run it. Matt Boling is a 27' long jumper. He can't say his long jump is 28' until he has jumped 28'. Just facts.
Both Sandy P and 'Molly Miss Golly' really struggling with the idea of someone *trying to run faster*
Either two very jealous people, or two villages are missing their idiots. Maybe both.
No. I deal in facts. Until she has run 2:20 her marathon pace is 2:24:41. She may be striving for 2:20 in the future but that is not her marathon pace until she has run it. Matt Boling is a 27' long jumper. He can't say his long jump is 28' until he has jumped 28'. Just facts.
Yeah, sure but who really cares other than you? Is it really worth thinking about?
Both Sandy P and 'Molly Miss Golly' really struggling with the idea of someone *trying to run faster*
Either two very jealous people, or two villages are missing their idiots. Maybe both.
No. I deal in facts. Until she has run 2:20 her marathon pace is 2:24:41. She may be striving for 2:20 in the future but that is not her marathon pace until she has run it. Matt Boling is a 27' long jumper. He can't say his long jump is 28' until he has jumped 28'. Just facts.
Maybe you don’t know, but there are running coaches that refer to training paces by race distances. The paces are based on current estimated fitness. You are, perhaps, misunderstanding this naming convention. Would somebody training for her first marathon say, “Daniels says I should run 10 mi at MP today, but I have never run a marathon, so I can’t do that workout- well, I WILL run the prescribed pace but I’m not allowed to call it - [whispers]- marathon pace”. Of course not- it’s ok to say it, and not considered wrong or bragging, unless it is wildly inaccurate. And in the case of this Olympic medalist- it’s not.
This was a good solid workout for Molly. She did not taper for it and was trying to practice her marathon pace. BTW: The next day she took it easy with a 20 mile run.
No. I deal in facts. Until she has run 2:20 her marathon pace is 2:24:41. She may be striving for 2:20 in the future but that is not her marathon pace until she has run it. Matt Boling is a 27' long jumper. He can't say his long jump is 28' until he has jumped 28'. Just facts.
Maybe you don’t know, but there are running coaches that refer to training paces by race distances. The paces are based on current estimated fitness. You are, perhaps, misunderstanding this naming convention. Would somebody training for her first marathon say, “Daniels says I should run 10 mi at MP today, but I have never run a marathon, so I can’t do that workout- well, I WILL run the prescribed pace but I’m not allowed to call it - [whispers]- marathon pace”. Of course not- it’s ok to say it, and not considered wrong or bragging, unless it is wildly inaccurate. And in the case of this Olympic medalist- it’s not.
Thanks you! This conversation is insane... I'd expect most LRCer's know what it means to train at MP... Just because your fitness dictates that you should train at a certain pace doesn't mean you're necessarily going to run a marathon at exactly that pace come race day.
Both Sandy P and 'Molly Miss Golly' really struggling with the idea of someone *trying to run faster*
Either two very jealous people, or two villages are missing their idiots. Maybe both.
No. I deal in facts. Until she has run 2:20 her marathon pace is 2:24:41. She may be striving for 2:20 in the future but that is not her marathon pace until she has run it. Matt Boling is a 27' long jumper. He can't say his long jump is 28' until he has jumped 28'. Just facts.
Right but the marathon isn't like sprints/jumps/5k & under running events where you generally don't make massive improvements based on terrain/weather/fitness. Molly ran 2:27 to finish 2nd at the Trials on a hilly Atlanta course. Then she ran 2:27 in miserable conditions at the Olympics to earn a Bronze medal. Then she ran an American CR (2:24) at NYC. Clearly she is faster than a 2:24 marathoner & could run under 2:22, likely under 2:20, if she had a team of pacers & caught a perfect day like they had in January for Houston.
She's gonna draw these types of criticisms because she's the top-US marathoner, which means rotating Boston/NYC/Trials/Worlds/Olympics. She might never run a fast/flat course on a good day throughout her entire career. So call her a 2:24 marathoner if you want because she is but she's also an Olympic medalist & American CR holder at NYC.
1:10 on that Mesa course is marathon effort for her. & it's good practice for the front half of the Boston course. If her training had called for her to rip 13.1 there, she would have run a lot faster. But she got in 13.1 @ MP effort on tired legs at a low key event.
There is a bit of, albeit not monstrous, climb near mile 5 for about a mile and a half. But overall Mesa is a very fast course.
I've run both races there. The hill is mile 6 for the marathon only. The HM starts at the halfway point of the marathon. The marathon drops about 700 feet in the first half while the second half (the HM course) drops nice and evenly about 150 feet. The hill is about a 100 foot climb if I remember correctly.
Both Sandy P and 'Molly Miss Golly' really struggling with the idea of someone *trying to run faster*
Either two very jealous people, or two villages are missing their idiots. Maybe both.
No. I deal in facts. Until she has run 2:20 her marathon pace is 2:24:41. She may be striving for 2:20 in the future but that is not her marathon pace until she has run it. Matt Boling is a 27' long jumper. He can't say his long jump is 28' until he has jumped 28'. Just facts.
No points for you.
Marathon pace is the pace you're training for. It's not a historical marker. If it was, nobody would ever improve, because their MP workouts would just be whatever they ran last time.
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