Scientific study: Kenyan pro average 106 miles per week and the men run at 7:40 per mile pace, women 8:30!!!

That's my mistake and I'll own up to it. I calculated based on meters/second, the usual scientific measure, but the report actually used minutes/km, so the correct figures are actually about 5:04 and 5:28/mile. I consider those entirely unrealistic for a number of reasons, especially altitude, and am now dubious about the entire paper.

I have written to the authors to ask what's going on, but they have not responded so far.

Sorry for the mistake. Amby Burfoot

Amby Burfoot wrote:

That's my mistake and I'll own up to it. I calculated based on meters/second, the usual scientific measure, but the report actually used minutes/km, so the correct figures are actually about 5:04 and 5:28/mile. I consider those entirely unrealistic for a number of reasons, especially altitude, and am now dubious about the entire paper.

I have written to the authors to ask what's going on, but they have not responded so far.

Sorry for the mistake. Amby Burfoot

Either way, the speed/distance numbers seemed not to be the focus of the research, which was about factors leading to Achilles Tendonopathy. The numbers were just some statistics collected to describe the type of training the runners engaged in, not a study of the training itself. I get that we don't have a lot of data on how Kenyans train, but it seems like a reach to try to discern and report useful data from the survey data they collected. Especially when the reported data doesn't pass a gut check.

Kneesovertoesguy could fix all these guys with no equipment or drugs, and Jakob would never touch Timmy again.

Ah now I read the newsletter and it makes more sense. The idea is to distill articles and papers into bite-size headlines. Even without egregious errors, this type of oversimplification tends toward outright untruth. For example:

[The researchers] hypothesized that soft shoes would increase leg stiffness and muscle expenditure. To find out, they constructed a huarache-like running sandal and two identical sandals with increasing amounts of cushioning. Surprise! They found essentially no difference [in leg stiffness and muscle expenditure] between the three shoes.

becomes the headline

Cushioned run shoes won’t wreck your biomechanics

...which is a more general and arguably fundamentally different conclusion than the authors reached in their study.

I'd like to see less of this irresponsible overreaching, but that would mean we'd have to accept the specificity of each study's conclusions and we wouldn't have an easy-to-digest conclusion in the first place!

Thanks Coach.

The article did not makes since to me either based on what I knew. Burford is a decent guy, he misinterpeted the numbers which happens sometimes.

It means long distance runners only, no mystery.

Average training velocity is the most useful metric they could use with just 400 subjects.

Might've been more telling to count weekly volume <3'/km but then we can also surmise a high level

of talent and basic speed from the 3.3'/km average, can't we?

The faster velocities bring more running w lower leg activation.

Achilles issues would follow, most from elevated compartment pressures.

Explained in more detail here:

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/japplphysiol.00128.2015

It would be nice to know how the collected the data. It should be pointe out both numbers seem odd. They aren't doing 100mpw at 530 pace at altitude. And average pace is always a bit deceptive when talking about people doing 2-3 runs. Do 5 in the morning at 9, 2 miles at 9 followed by 8 at 6 gives you 15 at like 7:30 . The focus should be on those 8 miles at 1 min slower than MP not the warm ups and cooldowns.

Granted most people still run way too fast....

rojo wrote:

From Amby Burfoot's most recent column.

https://www.podiumrunner.com/culture/run-long-run-healthy-weekly-roundup-february-10-2022/

How Kenyan runners train

Kenyan distance runners train hard and race fast. We all know that. Apparently, they also have a high incidence of Achilles tendon injury—13.9%. I was more interested in the training data since we rarely see hard data of this sort from Kenya. Runners “in high altitude training camps” ran an average of 170 km/week (about 106 miles). They had an average pace of 8:07 per mile, which means the men likely ran at about 7:40 pace and the women at 8:30 pace. That’s at altitude of course, but amazingly slower than their race paces. More at African J for Physical Activity & Health Sciences.

https://journals.co.za/doi/pdf/10.37597/ajphes.2021.27.4.8

I've known quite a few Kenyan runners and never known a single one to have an Achilles injury. I can't think of any top Kenyan's who had an Achilles injury. By that I mean something serious, not something that required a few days to a couple of weeks of rest to heal. That data just doesn't pass the smell test claiming the incidence of Achilles tendon injury is 1 in 7 Kenyan runners. Seems very high to me.

The sampled population was a Kenyan training camp - not those who made it out and went on to have very successful careers.

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

[quote]rojo wrote:

From Amby Burfoot's most recent column.

https://www.podiumrunner.com/culture/run-long-run-healthy-weekly-roundup-february-10-2022/

How Kenyan runners train

Kenyan distance runners train hard and race fast. We all know that. Apparently, they also have a high incidence of Achilles tendon injury—13.9%. I was more interested in the training data since we rarely see hard data of this sort from Kenya. Runners “in high altitude training camps” ran an average of 170 km/week (about 106 miles). They had an average pace of 8:07 per mile, which means the men likely ran at about 7:40 pace and the women at 8:30 pace. That’s at altitude of course, but amazingly slower than their race paces. More at African J for Physical Activity & Health Sciences.

https://journals.co.za/doi/pdf/10.37597/ajphes.2021.27.4.8

I've known quite a few Kenyan runners and never known a single one to have an Achilles injury. I can't think of any top Kenyan's who had an Achilles injury. By that I mean something serious, not something that required a few days to a couple of weeks of rest to heal. That data just doesn't pass the smell test.

...well there you have it. Your knowing some Kenyans certainly trumps a scientific study with 390 subjects.

One of the very few posters on this forum who speaks about some subject while actually having first hand experience.

Thanks, Renato.

Their really slow jogs do probably affect the overall pace quite a bit. We all saw the videos of them purposely shortening the stride and almost looks like they're barely moving forward. Those had be slow as 10 to 11 min/mile.

What’s the key to recovering between and after massive days of work like this? Do the athletes just pound a ton of carbs between sessions and lay around or is there something they’re doing to make this work load possible?

Two things:

1. Rojo, do you want to change the title of this thread and edit the first post, since the author of the article has essentially retracted it on the board.

2. Ummm... can we clarify this workout that Canova posted? Is he saying that Erick Kiptanui ran 48k in one day spread across two workouts, with 6k total of warmup, 2 total blocks of 10k at ~5:10/mile pace, plus a 12k at ~4:50/mile pace, plus 10x1200 meters at ~4:25/mile pace? Because that is incredible and deserves its own thread.

510 is like 100k pace. 450 is mp. That seems doable. 10x1200 at hm seems doable also. Doing them on the same day at like 6000' is rough...

I translated the paces as a percentage of Erick Kiptanui's MP to my own and the paces seem actually pretty relaxed. As you said though, doing both workouts in one day is brutal. I'm curious what the rest of a week around this day would look like. Anyone know?

I can say this positive note about the Let's Run community. We can certainly spot BS pretty quickly no matter how it is packaged.

Erick will run HM in Ryhad on 5th of March.  Soon after the race (in the case the result is good or not good) I'll write all his training from 1st Jan of this year.  Everything is part of the program looking at Boston Marathon, the HM is a control of what we did before, still having the possibility to change something if we discover some problem.

Inh any case, I suggest not to do too much importance to the altitude.  For athletes living and training at 2400m >

I have to correct my previous post  :

For athletes living and training in altitude, the difference is around 3"/4" per km for all thye long distances (from 5000 till Marathon).  Some year ago, we had 2"/3" per km of more difference, because of the bad roads and the lack of grip, but today almost all the specific training of long runs (even pace, in progression or with intervals) are on tarmac roads, reducing the gap betweenm high altitude and sea level for this type of athletes.