Scientific Study: Massage helps you recover, ice baths don't appear to do anything

otter wrote:

Also, read on to learn that participants had a race time of 34.5 for a 10k defined as “recreationally active.” Sounds like let’s run standards.

Anyway the measured test 24 hours after the exhaustive test was 18 minutes at an average of 14 km per hour in 6 minute increments of 12 km per hour / 14/ 16. Very pedestrian for a 34.5 10k runner.

The cold water immersion was only one rep for 10 minutes at 50 degrees Fahrenheit.

Yeah, I find it strange that all they did was have the runners do a "test" that was well within their capabilities and measure their stride height and angle. Why not go to exhaustion or at least measure something that would correlate more directly with race performance?

LikeAnsweringQuestionsOnAmazon. wrote:

Maybe it's about inflammation. Maybe it's hormonal. Like it stops the endorphins and that's a good thing. it could be neurological, I am just thinking about the old truth that coaches and athletes learn how to do what's effective before the experts know. How many times have the experts disclaimed something and then later reclaimed it? If it works don't fix it.

Yea, that's pretty true. Lydiard very nearly figured out the perfect training program through trial and error with hardly any scientific backing whatsoever. It's funny how that happens.

Mack M wrote:

Massage="greater stride height and angle changes as they sped up"

Massage physically breaks up scar tissue, realigns muscle fibers, and moves fluid around in one's muscles. This helps recovery and proper form recovery back to normal=recovery.

Ice baths do not directly help muscle tissue recover from an athletics standpoint. Cold therapy can be generally productive via white fat cells activation, hormone balance, and other mitochondrial effects, but it wont physically restore muscles to working order like physical tissue realignment.

Does it really do those things? Are there quality studies that suggest massage breaks up scar tissue?

Also, muscle fibers are ALWAYS aligned. You will never find a muscle fiber that isn't. So this claim is just plain ignorant.

And walking moves blood too. ANy movement causes the muscle pump of fluid in veins and capillaries sooo... Why massage when the mechanism for walking is the same (and has better health benefits)?

Massage has been proven to help with flexibility. It has also been suspected that it helps break up scar tissue in the connective tissue and muscle sheath, although this is not well understood. It can actually be harmful if done AFTER a muscle has been overworked and/or damaged as it can cause further damage.

Conclusion: massage, if timed right and done in the right way, can be beneficial.

JBaller33 wrote:

LikeAnsweringQuestionsOnAmazon. wrote:

Maybe it's about inflammation. Maybe it's hormonal. Like it stops the endorphins and that's a good thing. it could be neurological, I am just thinking about the old truth that coaches and athletes learn how to do what's effective before the experts know. How many times have the experts disclaimed something and then later reclaimed it? If it works don't fix it.

Yea, that's pretty true. Lydiard very nearly figured out the perfect training program through trial and error with hardly any scientific backing whatsoever. It's funny how that happens.

I see you don't know about Lydiard. He had the scientific backing.

A well done paper years ago in the Journal of Athletic Training looked at blood lactate levels. Blood was drawn immediately after heavy activity and days afterward. There was no significant difference in the group that got massage verses the control group that did nothing. Significant improvement in the group that did light recovery exercise.

The bottom line is that most of the recovery techniques are anecdotal.

Aah yes, Letsrun "Expert" opinion. The highest from of evidence on the evidence hierarchy.

There is a lot to unpack here like "flexibility". Like what benefits does increasing flexibility actually have for running?

There is no quality evidence that suggests massage breaks up scar tissue: (

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Having taken a scalpel to scar tissue on cadavears, I can't image the pressure from a massage breaks up anything. Scar tissue is strong!

The benefits from massage are primarily psychological:

There is a very readable book “Good to Go” by Christie Ascwanderer that explores the science of recovery.

Also, never underestimate the power of the placebo effect.

lmb wrote:

There is a very readable book “Good to Go” by Christie Ascwanderer that explores the science of recovery.

I'm intrigued! Looks like it may confirm my bias.

Sleep is the most important recovery "technique" we have available to us. Foam rolling, massage, ice therapy is not important.

lmb wrote:

Also, never underestimate the power of the placebo effect.

This is the go-to response I've been given whenever I question common practices like massage and other manual therapy techniques.

The placebo effect is powerful, but what about the nocebo effect? How harmful is the narrative that "therapists" (either massage or physical) give to their patients? Look at some of the BS that's been posted already "your muscle fibers need to realigned" "there is scar tissue building up that massage can break up". Imagine you feel some pain after a run, if you feel like your pain is caused by one of those mechanisms above it WILL cause unnecessary stress and worry. Extra stress, worry, and loss of autonomy has been linked to exasperate symptoms. (

and

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If the best we can offer people are sugar pills, we are failing to educate and are causing harm.

You posted a misleading topic, but not surprised considering your allowances to the crap that is posted.

There is hardly enough done on this "study" that can come close to be considered definitive. From personal experience, as an athlete, an athletic trainer and a coach, ice bathes work wonders. Anybody who uses them will swear by them.

redderthedeader wrote:

rojo wrote:

Study here:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31800477/

Summary here:

https://runningmagazine.ca/sections/training/injuries/study-massage-beats-ice-bath-for-improving-recovery/

You posted a misleading topic, but not surprised considering your allowances to the crap that is posted.

There is hardly enough done on this "study" that can come close to be considered definitive. From personal experience, as an athlete, an athletic trainer and a coach, ice bathes work wonders. Anybody who uses them will swear by them.

But, using the hierarchy of evidence, the "study" is better than your *expert* opinion/anecdotal evidence.

But what’s easier to access on a regular basis, an ice bath or someone to massage you?

I believe this.

When it comes to injuries, ice baths certainly help. Even then, PT is more important.