Thinking of doing 1000s at 'marathon effort' what sould be the rest?

a guy in base phase wrote:

During base phase now and I was thinking doing some running at marathon effort would be good, but jumping right into the longer stuff doesn't seem wise, so I was thinking about doing like 12x1000 w/ walking rest to begin with, but i'm not sure what the duration of the rest should be, maybe 30-45s?

Any suggestion would be very much appreciated

If you're a 5-10k guy, I don't know that this is what you want to do. I favor 60-75 minute "sub threshold" runs, by which I really mean progressions where you start easy, then feel your way along. I usually aim to pull back a bit from working hard; usually it ends up being hard enough. Depending on the day, you would probably find yourself getting close to marathon pace -- 5k pace / .85 is my rule of thumb for what I call "marathon pace". So most times, you might want to be a little slower than that.

But you want to develop the feel for that effort, which means not letting the watch drive the run. And leave room for progression over the course of several workouts.

If, however, your heart is set on doing repeats, then do 1000s at marathon pace as above with 1 minute easy (faster than jog) recovery, and see how many repeats you can manage at moderate workout effort. It would be better to start with fewer than 12, then see how your legs feel the next day. You can do more next time -- more repeats, or longer repeats as suits your personality. There are lots of ways to organize such workouts. You could also go on/off -- 4-5 minutes faster than marathon pace, then equal time slower -- for example.

If you’re not a marathoner, I agree with the others who say that doing a moderately hard run/“Kenyan”/“run to the barn”/cutdown is probably the way to go, rather than structured marathon effort intervals. The workouts I suggested earlier are definitely more for a marathoner. A run with 4-6 good, sustained uphills where you push the effort on the uphills could also be a good option.

1000m at mp is just a bad workout, with any rest more than zero.

Do some strides instead.

Dude, what are you smoking?

Just start run first week with direct 30min @MP, it is very easy and progress withing 4 weeks to 60min @MP. That's it.

During base building it might looks like this:

4 weeks: easy runs, 1 long run, 2-3days strides 3x60m

5th week: easy runs, 1 long run, 1 workout: 30min@MP+wu/cd, 2-3days strides 3x60m

6th week: easy runs, 1long run, 1workout: 40min @MP+wu/cd, 2-3days strides 3x60m

7th week: easy runs, 1long run, 1workout: 50min @MP+wu/cd, 2-3days strides 3x80m

8th week: easy runs,1long run, 1workout: 60min@MP+wu/cd, 2-3days strides 3-4x80m

8th week: easy runs, 1long run, 1workout: tempo 20min @threshold+wu/cd, 2days strides 3-4x100m, 1day hill sprints 6x10s @6-8%gradient, rest w/3min

9th week: easy runs, 1long run, 1workout: tempo 20min @TR+wu/cd, 2days strides 3-4×140m, 1day hill sprints 8x10s @6-8%gradient, rest w/3min

and so on...

10th week: easy runs, 1long run, 1workout: tempo or LT intervals (in order to run more than 20min at threshold pace), 2workout: 10-12×400m @3k/5k (economy workout), 1day strides, 1day hill sprints

11th week: easy runs, 1long, 1workout: tempo or LT intervals, 2workout: 10-15×200 @1.5k, 1day strides, 1day hill sprints

12th week: easy runs, 1long, 1workout tempo or LT intervals, 2workout: economy workout, 1day strides, 1day hill sprints

6 hill sprints in the cycle

4 threshold runs by 20min

4 mp runs by 30, 40, 50, 60 min

Strides: 60m, 80m, 100m, 140m

4-6 Economy workouts in the cycle

Long run every week

Easy in between

Core routine +strength training: 1-2 time per week

Special training for feet, running technique: 2-3times per week.

Withing 12 weeks gradualy increasing miles for higher level than before.

By JD rest at LT intervals (threshold) is 1/5 of interval duration.

I train 2 athletes with vdot 64 and 34 and both confirmed that 1/5 ratio is excellent. Athlete with vdot 64 confirmed that 30min straight at @MP is very easy workout, even tempo @20min is quite managable...

Short, like 30-60. I have used 20s for threshold pace and M-pace is a "lot" slower. But it really do not matter much since the intensity is so low and sustainable. The rest is really just to feel better and as important mentally as physically. There should be no buildup of lactate so no need for rest to clear that. I am ready at 20s really, but use 30 and never more even on reps of 10min at M-pace or Thr-pace. The benefit of having a short rest is that the first part of the next rep where you feel great and could do the mistake of running too fast is getting shorter and I get faster into steady state feel. So having a short rest is kindof practical for running steady paces

Why would you do intervals at marathon pace? You should be able to do a long run at marathon pace if you wanted.

10012022 wrote:

Why would you do intervals at marathon pace? You should be able to do a long run at marathon pace if you wanted.

Why do we do intervals at 5k pace? One should be able to do a 5k at 5k pace if iyou wanted. But we don't since doing intervals at 5k pace can be done for MORE than 5k volume and with less recovery need than a 5k race. The same for intervals at M-pace. We can do a lot of quality work at the specific pace and load for the body, but with less mental load and less need of recovery.

I still would vary btw reps with rest, alternations and longer stretches close to M-pace in addition to a lot of running though, but think M-paced intervals has its place

Untrue. That's why you do 3x1 mile at 5k pace. But marathon for most people is close to their normal daily run pace. The average runner does easy runs at 7:30, 5k race at 6:30 pace, and marathon at 7:15 pace. So to say that they can't run 15 miles at 7:15 pace is silly. But they can't run 5k in training at 6:30 pace but they can run 3x1 mile at 6:25.

M-pace is often a confusing term. For slower runners I agree it makes no sense. For faster runners it does. OP talked about M-pace being sub-threshold/moderate and that makes sense to also vary with intervals. Not sure OP's M-pace. For myself as a slower runner, I use 1h and 2h race pace as training intensities.

Jon Arne Glomsrud wrote:

M-pace is often a confusing term. For slower runners I agree it makes no sense. For faster runners it does. OP talked about M-pace being sub-threshold/moderate and that makes sense to also vary with intervals. Not sure OP's M-pace. For myself as a slower runner, I use 1h and 2h race pace as training intensities.

Totally agree that M-pace is confusing. It's the only Daniels pace that's defined by the distance rather than the length of time it can be sustained. For the slowest runners, it merges with easy pace since they'll be out for 4-5 hours. And for the fastest runners, they're well into the heavy domain. So it means different things to different people, unlike T-pace, which should feel the same for everyone (in Daniels' rigid world).

It is even confusing at the level of very good runners. I ran 14 minutes for 5k but wasn't really a distance runner with my best marathon being 2:36. So I could run 5k at 4:30, marathon at 6 minutes, and training runs at 7 minutes. I did repeat miles at 4:30. Imagine doing repeat 1000s at 6 minute mile pace? I could do a nice 13 miler with the last 9 at 6 minute pace instead.