John Wesley Harding wrote:
hop scotch pie wrote:
Mary Cain won US Indoor mile (not 1500) in 2013 and was 2nd in the outdoor champs. She made the final of WC 1500 that year. She won the world jr. 3000 the following year, 2014.
How does any of that contradict what I wrote about her 2014 season?
She won US Indoors and was 2nd at outdoors in 2013 not 2014.
hop scotch pie wrote:
John Wesley Harding wrote:
How does any of that contradict what I wrote about her 2014 season?
She won US Indoors and was 2nd at outdoors in 2013 not 2014.
Or maybe you are listing her in 2014 because of her 2013 accomplishments as well?
hop scotch pie wrote:
John Wesley Harding wrote:
How does any of that contradict what I wrote about her 2014 season?
She won US Indoors and was 2nd at outdoors in 2013 not 2014.
She won US Indoors and was 2nd at outdoors in 2013 AND 2014!
2013 was her big breakthrough into a running-world celebrity, sure, but I feel like Mo Farah beats her for the LRCMBAOTY for 2013. Cain benefits from some year-old residuals to help her take the 2014 title.
John Wesley Harding wrote:
hop scotch pie wrote:
She won US Indoors and was 2nd at outdoors in 2013 not 2014.
She won US Indoors and was 2nd at outdoors in 2013 AND 2014!
2013 was her big breakthrough into a running-world celebrity, sure, but I feel like Mo Farah beats her for the LRCMBAOTY for 2013. Cain benefits from some year-old residuals to help her take the 2014 title.
Fair enough, my mistake. I was thrown off by you listing her ages in 2013 for those accomplishments. As far as some others:
2012 for me is Rudisha. That was the most memorable race in London by far.
2019 Hassan over Ingebrigtsen - one of the greatest doubles of all time.
hop scotch pie wrote:
2012 for me is Rudisha. That was the most memorable race in London by far.
2019 Hassan over Ingebrigtsen - one of the greatest doubles of all time.
Yeah, if we allow repeat winners everything changes, including Rudisha contending in 2012 (as with Webb in ‘07). There’s an argument that Farah wins for his breakout 2011, allowing Rudisha to win in 2012 over Levins (funny to compare the two, I know), Cain to win in 2013 and maybe Jenny Simpson to take 2014.
Truth be told, if we allow repeat winners and base it solely on who’s generated the most discussion here, Webb and Rupp probably combine for 10+ titles.
I respect the Hassan over Ingebrigtsen in 2019 call, and agree it’s quite possible. I was feeling weird about how I hadn’t included Hassan, Dibaba, Defar, or Gidey.
Centrowitz for 2016
pppplk wrote:
seasoned ranker wrote:
Then you weren’t here in 2007.
I have been here since 2002. This board was always obsessed with Webb.
I’ve also been here since 2002, and this is very true. “Seasoned ranker” is probably a newbie here.
John Wesley Harding wrote:
If there was an annual LetsRun.com message board athlete of the year award, based ~50% on who had the best/most notable performances (at the HS level, NCAA level, Olympic level, whatever) and 50% on simply who generated the most buzz on the boards throughout the year (and therefore male American distance biases come HEAVILY into play), I think Hocker clearly wins for 2021.
For 2001, the first full year of the website’s existence, it’s hard to imagine it wouldn’t have been Alan Webb, right?
Before I think extensively about who would have won this hypothetical award each year in between ‘01 & ‘21 (RULE: ONE and DONE - once an athlete has won the award they are no longer in consideration to repeat), I’ll put it to you—who would take the title in each of these years?
2001 - Alan Webb
2002 -
2003 -
2004 -
2005 -
2006 -
2007 -
2008 -
2009 -
2010 -
2011 -
2012 -
2013 -
2014 -
2015 -
2016 -
2017 -
2018 -
2019 -
2020 -
2021 - Cole Hocker
Also, feel free to question my premise of Hocker winning for 2021; I will say, the obviousness of the decision is contingent on Jakob having already won in recent years...but would he have? And of course, Shelby Houlihan didn’t put up results this year, but she did generate a lot of discussion.
Jakob probably wins this year or Shelby.
What year did Kip Litton peak.
One recommendation:
2011 Verzbicas - 2 mile high school record, first high schooler in 10 years to break 4. Oregon debut is a huge deal along with subsequent leaving.
2012 Rudisha - World record, maybe the greatest race of the 2010, absolutely dominant season.
Frank “God rest his soul” Meza 2019
When was that Mike Rossi debacle?
Harding, in general I like your list. Most of it wouldn't argue against. Rudisha in London could be discussed.
Maybe Kipchoge when he pulled off the 2 hour stunt. In general, though I like the analysis.
The thread title, however, is the ranking I question most. I consider Hassan a shoe-in. Olympic triple was the biggest news in distance running in - well, I'm tempted to say decades. Decades would probably be accurate if all 3 were Gold. But still, I'd have a hard time imagining any non-US media even mentioning Hocker. Even mentioning. Has Gjert ever heard of him?
Now, I realize this is a US based (and biased) Board. He's somewhat well-known here. A notch below Mu. Taking the USATF title was a sort of big deal, the NCAA exploits less so. So we in this part of the world could end up discussing him - although Mu would be discussed both domestically and internationally. Still the same, overcoming Hassan's notoriety and fame (both really, largely due to the Salazar connection and his recent negative press) is a tall ask, even in Eugene.
2021 - Siffan Hassan. Runner-up: Athing Mu (unless the 400 eliminates her from consideration for this award). Then Jakob Ingerbritsen followed by a handful of others. Then Cole Hocker. Probably the 11th or 12th most important US runner of the year. (Possibly tied with Connor Mantz.) Generated about that much excitement too. Quite a bit less than Newbury Park. Less than Shelby Houlihan, funny enough. 111th or 112th in significance world-wide. That may be a stretch, actually.
kartelite wrote:
pppplk wrote:
I have been here since 2002. This board was always obsessed with Webb.
I’ve also been here since 2002, and this is very true. “Seasoned ranker” is probably a newbie here.
🙄
Umm, OK wrote:
Harding, in general I like your list. Most of it wouldn't argue against. Rudisha in London could be discussed.
Maybe Kipchoge when he pulled off the 2 hour stunt. In general, though I like the analysis.
The thread title, however, is the ranking I question most. I consider Hassan a shoe-in. Olympic triple was the biggest news in distance running in - well, I'm tempted to say decades. Decades would probably be accurate if all 3 were Gold. But still, I'd have a hard time imagining any non-US media even mentioning Hocker. Even mentioning. Has Gjert ever heard of him?
Now, I realize this is a US based (and biased) Board. He's somewhat well-known here. A notch below Mu. Taking the USATF title was a sort of big deal, the NCAA exploits less so. So we in this part of the world could end up discussing him - although Mu would be discussed both domestically and internationally. Still the same, overcoming Hassan's notoriety and fame (both really, largely due to the Salazar connection and his recent negative press) is a tall ask, even in Eugene.
2021 - Siffan Hassan. Runner-up: Athing Mu (unless the 400 eliminates her from consideration for this award). Then Jakob Ingerbritsen followed by a handful of others. Then Cole Hocker. Probably the 11th or 12th most important US runner of the year. (Possibly tied with Connor Mantz.) Generated about that much excitement too. Quite a bit less than Newbury Park. Less than Shelby Houlihan, funny enough. 111th or 112th in significance world-wide. That may be a stretch, actually.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply.
In hindsight Rudisha is the athlete of the year for 2012, but part of the intrigue in this exercise was trying to put myself in the mindset of the 2010/2011/any-given-year voter, who has no prescient awareness that 2012 will be Rudisha’s most memorable year. And with my stipulation that there can be no repeat winners, the chances that Rudisha wouldn’t have won until 2012 aren’t necessarily that good. The same is especially true for Kipchoge not winning until 2019.
As for your thoughts on Cole Hocker’s relevance and popularity on this site, you’re way off the mark, possibly deluded by some kind of bias. I could hardly get anyone to discuss international indoor track back in February and March, while so many here were obsessed with Teare and Hocker (an interest amplified by the Centrowitz “drama”). Any time an American-born 19 year old runs a 3:50 mile it’s a hot topic on this site—but followed by his indoor double, his NCAA and USOT wins and progressing all the way to 3:31.4 in the Olympic final, he had the kind of dream season these boards are all about. If he’s not internationally relevant enough in your mind, then I think you misunderstand my criteria, and surely Webb, Fernandez, Levins, Cain et al would be faulty picks as well.
If Gjert Ingebrigtsen hasn’t heard of Cole Hocker then he must be more oblivious to the international competition than any other world class coach. It would be utterly shocking.
Finally, I admit I’m now completely torn between Hassan and Hocker for 2021.
I can see where you could go with Kipchoge and Rudisha when you did, given the exact scenario you explained. Makes sense when you put it that way. But like I said, I might not change much of the list. I guess you're right about your guy being a big deal domestically, but I'm still not sure he exists in anyone's mind internationally. But is he even the biggest deal here?
Wasn't Mantz similarly hyped/discussed/disparaged on this Board? To be sure, the Oregon track scene was big during indoor season, but NCAA XC was at that time, then he had a bigger surge in the Fall. Hocker/Oregon track wasn't discussed at all for a while. In the meantime, many a thread talked a lot of smack about the LDS Church, the theory that they won't recruit anybody under 30, etc., etc., but negative or not, that was still all a spin-off of Mantz scoring a rare XC double. Hocker's Nike signing bumped him a bit, of course. I'll admit that.
To be clear, I'm not suggesting you replace an NCAA track champ with a XC champ, just that if there is any debate about being the top US MB dog, you are certainly not THE top, period. If he is the biggest deal discussion-wise in the world, he has to be absolutely the biggest American. And I am not sure if he generates hype and discussion among the Kenyans and Ingerbritsens of the world. Is he really that big? Well, that debate is academic given the Triple Medalist.
The only possible answer I see for 2018 is Jamin. (Multiple sub 15 5k attempts and successes). Honestly surprised nobody mentioned it yet
pretty good list but I think jakob's year is 2018, after his 1500/5k double at European championship aged only 17, and also running 3:31 in Monaco, improving by more than 8 seconds from the year before.
Also breaking Alan Webb's high school mile record by running 3:52.
Also 17yo jakob beating Olympic medalist Paul chelimo and Olympic champion Matthew Centrowitz in May and saying just after the race "that's the easiest thing I've ever done"
So yeah Jakob definitely takes it in 2018, all these events made everyone talk about him
Great post. I saw someone say Hassan for 2019, and I would agree.
no Katelyn Tuohy? 2018 maybe? did houlihan generate more buzz than her?