Sifan Hassan has Covi-19 as we speak. Says she will make her marathon debut in 2023.

Hassan's ability in the 800 and 1500 suggests that she will have a more difficult time excelling in the half and full. She will do well. But can she be the best? I would bet top 3, but not best.

ANd Gidey would never touch Hassan in a 1500 or 8.

not going to get into the ridiculous argument of comparing road performances to track performances.

So like Mo Farah

Should we be surprised an ivy alumini doesn’t know what a non -sequitor is?

Your take is dumb. Both matter, a lot. If the latter didn’t matter, why would any top pro aspire to a global championship gold? They’d only race in perfect conditions with rabbits and wave light. The true goats do both, eg Bekele. Gidey may well do both, but not yet. You think if we asked the pros if they’d rather have an Olympic gold or hold the wr in an event, they would choose the wr? I doubt it. Go back and watch the Tokyo women’s 10K and tell me Gidey is currently the goat. She may be one day, but not today.

Wise Old Man wrote:

Your take is dumb. Both matter, a lot. If the latter didn’t matter, why would any top pro aspire to a global championship gold? They’d only race in perfect conditions with rabbits and wave light. The true goats do both, eg Bekele. Gidey may well do both, but not yet. You think if we asked the pros if they’d rather have an Olympic gold or hold the wr in an event, they would choose the wr? I doubt it. Go back and watch the Tokyo women’s 10K and tell me Gidey is currently the goat. She may be one day, but not today.

i agree. gidey could very well be the GOAT, but she may also be at the peak of her powers.

Thing is, female athletics do not yet have a Bekele or Geb, so the standard is not quite so high to reach.

OozmaKappa wrote:

So like Mo Farah

Yes. though probably a better version of Farah, but perhaps only because womens athletics are not as deep as mens.

do you think Farah would have dropped something in the area of 1:43.xx in an 800 had he tried at the right moment? This is an area where Hassan shows a bit more range because he didn't lay a time down.

maybe even mid 1:44.xx

143 perhaps a bit pie in the sky

Hassan is more than capable of breaking the 5K record and taking back the 10K record before she stops her track career. If she does, she will be like a Bekele, though maybe even better because she remains a serious threat at 1500m and has a world class 800 time. In the end, we have Kipyegon being like El G, Hassan like Bekele and maybe Gidey will be like a Kipchoge. Therefore, Hassan = Goat. I’m quite sure that if Gidey and Hassan step on the track in a 5 or 10K, tapered and ready to run, Gidey is NOT beating Hassan regardless of their prs. If you can’t beat the best available competition head to head, you simply can’t be considered the goat.

Wise Old Man wrote:

Your take is dumb. Both matter, a lot. If the latter didn’t matter, why would any top pro aspire to a global championship gold? They’d only race in perfect conditions with rabbits and wave light. The true goats do both, eg Bekele. Gidey may well do both, but not yet. You think if we asked the pros if they’d rather have an Olympic gold or hold the wr in an event, they would choose the wr? I doubt it. Go back and watch the Tokyo women’s 10K and tell me Gidey is currently the goat. She may be one day, but not today.

Your take is dumb. It's money. It has value because people believe it has value. That's it. Theres nothing else to it when it comes to global titles. The athletes need to pay the bills and so they follow the money. The hardware is easier to obtain than the fast times, so thats where their bread is mainly buttered. Not every olympic champion can break records. But any world record holder can win global titles.

Going back to the question posed originally, if you actually want to evaluate who is the more talented runner then you should recognize that placements at arbitrary competitions has nothing to do with it. What you want to look at is the respective athletes' peak performances. If Bekele didnt have a single medal that wouldnt make him any less talented. It would just mean he has incredibly bad luck such that his peaks didnt coincide with the "right" competitions. And thats precisely the case with his marathoning career. But hes still the 2nd best marathoner of all time despite his peak performances not coinciding with moments we arbitrarily assigned value to.

Gidey's talents are obvious. Looking at the record books is synonymous with looking at her PRs, if that's not enough of an indication that she is more talented than Hassan I dont know what else to tell you.

Imagine thinking running by yourself chasing some lights on the ground is more important than a fistful of world and olympic titles.

The way you talk about Gidey's PRs is as if she blows Hassan away time wise. Hassan ran just a couple seconds off of Gidey's 10k WR.

(Also you don't see it suspicious that Gidey can drop these God tier times in one off races but loses whenever she actually has to race someone else world class (Tokyo 2021, Eugene 2021, Monaco 2020, Doha 2019).

Wise Old Man wrote:

You think if we asked the pros if they’d rather have an Olympic gold or hold the wr in an event, they would choose the wr?

You can only say something like this if you turn off your brain and ignore all the implications. Not every Olympic Champion can break records but any world record holder has the potential to win not just an Olympic Gold, but any global title.

Put it this way, would you rather be Centro or would you rather be a 3:25 guy? Would you rather be Marcell Jacobs or would you rather be a 9.5 guy. The IMPLICATION of being a 3:25 or 9.5 guy is that any time you step on the track you are threatening medals. No one with a brain would pick one measly gold over the potential to win any time you enter a race.

Gidey is the best, ever, over every distance from the 5k to the Half Marathon. Therefore she has the potential to win any global title. That she hasnt does not mean that she cant or wont. She almost certainly will eventually. That is the implication of being the best of all time.

Of course it’s better to have both, medals and records, but the heart of athletics is competition against others at the highest levels at the moment of truth, not some time trials set up for the records to fall. If you don’t see that, I can’t help you. The records come and go, but beating the best competition at the moment of the greatest pressure can never be taken away, so yes, I’d rather be Centro than some abstract runner who sets the 1500 wr under perfect conditions but who “choked” in the big races and never won a global gold medal and then had the record bested by somebody else a few years later.

Gidey may be “more talented” than Hassan(I would dispute this based on Hassan’s speed and range), but to date Hassan has had a far greater career. The fact that Hassan beats Gidey like a drum when the money is on the line is just further testament to Hassan’s greatness. Gidey is a robot who can run crazy fast times when things are set and there’s no pressure. Hassan is a gutsy competitor who wins. If both are healthy, rested and ready and you had to pick one to win to save your life, you go with Gidey. I’m taking Hassan for the win. You can’t be the goat if you can’t beat your rival in a high stakes race. This is sports.

the athletes respect the olympics and every single great one wants the gold badly. They do train to peak for it. It is not arbitrary.

if the athletes didn't care about it, you would be right. But this is not the case. Olympics matter.

Head to head results matter.

high school xc coach wrote:

the athletes respect the olympics and every single great one wants the gold badly. They do train to peak for it. It is not arbitrary.

if the athletes didn't care about it, you would be right. But this is not the case. Olympics matter.

Head to head results matter.

+1!!