family is supposed to go to ireland and england from 12/21 to new years... do we cancel the trip?

Case numbers are meaningless. Our hospitalisations and deaths are low and the hospitals have plenty of capacity.

The problem is our government has made a huge shady deal with Pfizer, the details of which nobody is allowed to know except them. They bought an extra 114million doses and need to justify the need for them hence the scaremongering over Omicron. We now have GP practices refusing everyday patient care so that they can go out and jab people to earn up to £30 per dose.

It's fraud on a massive scale. People are starting to wake up now and there's a huge protest planned for this Saturday.

the likelihood of stricter lockdowns, anti-government protests, having to get a negative test to return to the US -- I would strongly consider canceling. But I would probably go anyways myself as long as nothing changes in the next week or so.

dong brosnan wrote:

we are supposed to be in dublin for a bit and then london. have to be back at school on January 2nd... I think we should cancel.

anyone who was recently there or is currently there that can give any more info? honestly cases are going up so quickly, it seems pretty ridiculous that we havent already cancelled.

How many people in your family? Are you planning to just visit family or to also do other social activities like pubs, restaurants, tourism?

If you plan to socialize beyond your direct family, I'd day your chances of one of your family members catching covid in Dublin are low to moderate, and moderate to high in London.

The chances of one of you getting very sick are probably quite low, but if one of you tests positive in either the UK or Ireland (test is required pre flight), you're in for 10 days of self-isolation , at least, for the whole family. Worth considering.

There's lots of fearmongering here. How about some facts?

First, I'm in the UK. I don't know what the rules are in Ireland.

The Omicron variant is spreading fast, increasing hospital admissions and killed its first person on Monday. By the middle of Jan it's expected to be the dominant variant here. There are rumours of more lockdowns after Christmas but the government is doing a terrible job of winning public trust so these may or may not happen.

There's a vote in Parliament tomorrow which will pass. It makes the following the law in England.

People will need to demonstrate their Covid status to gain entry to:

- nightclubs

- indoor unseated venues with more than 500 people

- unseated outdoor venues with more than 4,000 people

- any venue with more than 10,000 people

Proof of being fully vaccinated (currently two doses), proof of a negative test in the last 48 hours, or an exemption will be needed. This can be done with an NHS Covid Pass, or an alternative way of showing a negative test, like a text or an email from the NHS.

Face coverings are compulsory in most indoor public venues, including theatres and cinemas - as well as on public transport and in places like shops and hairdressers. Masks won't be needed in pubs or restaurants, or venues like gyms where it's "not practical".

People should work from home "if they can".

Lateral flow tests should be used before people enter "a high-risk setting", such as a crowded place, the government says. These can be obtained free from pharmacies.

On Tuesday, daily lateral flow testing for seven days is introduced for fully-vaccinated people who are contacts of all positive Covid cases. This replaces self-isolation for contacts of Omicron cases.

Pupils at secondary schools are "strongly advised" to wear face coverings in communal areas; as should staff and visitors at all schools and childcare settings

1m-plus social distancing remains in places including hospitals and passport control

Anyone with Covid symptoms, or who tests positive, must self-isolate

Self-isolation for people who test positive or develop symptoms - or for unvaccinated people who are a contact of a Covid case

Source - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-52530518

Edit: Actually I posted some misinformation. Oops. Looking at the data, the hospitalisations haven't increased. Anecdotally, from friends who work in the NHS, they're feeling that it's much busier but the data doesn't show that yet.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=overview&areaName=United%20Kingdom

The worst case scenario (imho) is that you test positive and can't return to the USA on time. You now need a test no more than 1 day before boarding your return flight. That means you have little notice if someone is positive. If you go, I suggest taking some of the rapid tests you can get over the counter here, and test 48 hours before return. If you test positive, start making arrangements. If negative, go ahead with the 24 hour test to return.

You will also need a negative test and proof of vaccination to enter the UK. You also have to fill out a passenger locator form, which is needed to contact trace you if someone on your flights turn up positive. You then need to take a pcr test after arriving. The UK requirements are really strict. See:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/travel-to-england-from-another-country-during-coronavirus-covid-19

FWIW...I have a 14 hour layover in London in a week or so. I still plan to go on my trip.

Vineyard Vines wrote:

The worst case scenario (imho) is that you test positive and can't return to the USA on time.

... if someone on your flights turn up positive. You then need to take a pcr test after arriving. The UK requirements are really strict.

If I were the OP, my concern would be that the quarantine restrictions might explode in the next few weeks as we get deeper into winter and the Omicron variant spreads. It's not just a matter of the OP testing positive. If another member of the family tests positive and the restrictions get tighter, he might not be able to travel to London or fly back to the US on time.

What politicians do often has no basis in reality or logic. I try to avoid putting my life in the hands of politicians.

dong brosnan wrote:

we are supposed to be in dublin for a bit and then london. have to be back at school on January 2nd... I think we should cancel.

anyone who was recently there or is currently there that can give any more info? honestly cases are going up so quickly, it seems pretty ridiculous that we havent already cancelled.

At the moment, Omicron is more prevalent over in the UK than here in Ireland, but restrictions have already tightened in both countries.

I would recommend rescheduling your trip for this coming Spring or Summer, if at all possible, given your schedule and travel arrangements. You'll get the most out of Dublin after the current storm has passed, rather than at the current time, when the government stands poised to reimpose restrictions.

You don't want to get trapped in a hotel in the UK / Ireland, unable to travel home until you produce a negative test. It only makes sense if you have family over here with whom you can stay for free.

I would go. Make sure you're boosted and wear an N95 on the plane and in the airport. There are tons of wonderful things to do in Ireland, even in winter, that don't involve being around tons of people. I'm sure it will be a memorable experience. Make sure you bring a very good rain coat and umbrellas.

dong brosnan wrote:

we are supposed to be in dublin for a bit and then london. have to be back at school on January 2nd... I think we should cancel.

anyone who was recently there or is currently there that can give any more info? honestly cases are going up so quickly, it seems pretty ridiculous that we havent already cancelled.

You should live in fear. This is not going away. Just accept that you can no longer go anywhere and be happy about it. It's either that or certain that you will suffer mild symptoms and then get that whole "natural immunity" thing.

fisky wrote:

Vineyard Vines wrote:

The worst case scenario (imho) is that you test positive and can't return to the USA on time.

... if someone on your flights turn up positive. You then need to take a pcr test after arriving. The UK requirements are really strict.

If I were the OP, my concern would be that the quarantine restrictions might explode in the next few weeks as we get deeper into winter and the Omicron variant spreads. It's not just a matter of the OP testing positive. If another member of the family tests positive and the restrictions get tighter, he might not be able to travel to London or fly back to the US on time.

What politicians do often has no basis in reality or logic. I try to avoid putting my life in the hands of politicians.

You're not wrong, but the problem is that people have now been pushing vacations back for two years, hoping things might get better. At a certain point, you have to decide if you want to keep postponing or move on with life.

Prior to covid I was traveling internationally 5-6 times per year. That came to a screeching halt in March 2020. I finally went overseas again in September 2021 (Portugal). Yes, there is a risk of coming up positive and having to stay back for ten days. At my age (50), I decided my time for traveling getting more limited by the year, and I don't want to wait another year, two, or more before resuming. YMMV!

Lead Foil Hat XVI wrote:

dong brosnan wrote:[/b……., it seems pretty ridiculous that we havent already cancelled.

Are you really that worried? Are you very old and sick? Cases are going up everywhere because it is Winter. It does not matter what you do and if you are vaccinated then I am not sure what you are worried about.

The R Number for Omicron is no longer being reported (estimated as between 3 and 4., c.f. delta which was about 2.1-2.2). The number of cases is doubling every couple of days

The UK government have also made it clear that only being TRIPLE vaccinated gives any protection from Omicron, so unlike the Lead Foil Hat XVI man and 5g fools, I completely get your concerns which are echoed by science and observation.

I’m in same boat.

I want to travel abroad and I am vaxxed but still very concerned about popping a positive test and being stuck in a foreign country.

I would never have thought this would still have been an issue two years into this thing and now with a very effective vaccine available. However, it appears the traveling restrictions are actually getting stricter as more people get vaccinated/obtain natural immunity.

This is the issue for foreign travel, US requires a test before returning and if you positive you'll have to quarantine. Wasn't a concern last month for me being fully vaccinated but now its a factor if you can't allow for an extend stay.

Big bummer.

energeticlotuseater wrote:

I’m in same boat.

I want to travel abroad and I am vaxxed but still very concerned about popping a positive test and being stuck in a foreign country.

I would never have thought this would still have been an issue two years into this thing and now with a very effective vaccine available. However, it appears the traveling restrictions are actually getting stricter as more people get vaccinated/obtain natural immunity.

Depends on what your definition of effective is. Against omicron, they are not very effective. I cancelled a European vacation the summer before last (actually they pretty much cancelled it for me, so I went to Lake Powell, which was better than Europe in my opinion anyhow). I got vaccinated in the spring so I could go up to Saskatchewan, but they never opened the border in time, so I ended up going to Florida in the spring and Wyoming in the summer. The foreign countries losses have been my countries gains. Supposed to go to the Bahamas this coming spring. If there are travel restrictions in place, I will have to spend my money elsewhere. One of the fundamental principles of economics is alternatives. But the whole idea of blocking travel from certain countries when we already have the same variants in our country is pretty wild.

dont leave your house, cancel the trip

ensure you stay 6 feet apart from all members of the family

this is a pandemic! please do all you can to protect my grandmother

I agree with most of what you said but I will push back against the “effective” quip.

The last I heard off the BBC there were almost 5,000 verified cases of omicron variant , mostly among vaccinated people. Of those 5,000 cases there has been one death due to the variant. Either the vaccine is damn effective or this strain is very weak. But I’ll take those 1 to 5000 odds any day.

I’m sorry , I was spreading misinformation. There has been 200,000 omicron cases per day in Great Britain and they just had their first verified omicron death. This omicron hysteria just seems to be the height of insanity.