IT band issues are usually masquerading as "knee pain" and do indeed radiate to the hip. I have the same chronic issue. IT band runs from knee to hip on the outside of the leg. Look up IT band stretches and excercises.
I'd recommend foam rolling as a start. Also as others mentioned, start incorporating the glute activation exercises.
Most importantly take a few days off completely.
Bullet the Blue Sky wrote:
Here's a crazy thought - take a day off. Where's the urgency? You've been running at less than 100% - is more productive than a rest day or two?
It's probably muscle strain.
MRI is not the first step. Rest is.
Best reply. Take a day off, maybe even two. Then see if you feel any better and reassess.
I would also recommend not going too crazy with the stretching now, that can sometimes make things worse. Sometimes the best thing for an injury is to do nothing for a little while.
Oppenheimer wrote:
Bullet the Blue Sky wrote:
Here's a crazy thought - take a day off. Where's the urgency? You've been running at less than 100% - is more productive than a rest day or two?
It's probably muscle strain.
MRI is not the first step. Rest is.
Best reply. Take a day off, maybe even two. Then see if you feel any better and reassess.
I would also recommend not going too crazy with the stretching now, that can sometimes make things worse. Sometimes the best thing for an injury is to do nothing for a little while.
Docs wont even write you an MRI script if you haven't been through PT.
jamb innnnn wrote:
IT band issues are usually masquerading as "knee pain" and do indeed radiate to the hip. I have the same chronic issue. IT band runs from knee to hip on the outside of the leg. Look up IT band stretches and excercises.
I'd recommend foam rolling as a start. Also as others mentioned, start incorporating the glute activation exercises.
Most importantly take a few days off completely.
Thank you! I went to Fit For Life yesterday and they said it could just be tight hams and quads.
I'm not sure how I even injured it in the first place. I'm usually durable and ran 1600 miles last year without any major issues.
I think it is ITB though, as the glute part hurts as well as part of the knee. But have been doing leg lifts and raised back stretches (raising your back horizontally with your knees on the floor) and that helps. When sitting and kicking the leg up there is a little bit of pain but not like it was.
I'm hoping to run 2/6 but if I can't I'll just run it as a 5k or 10k and not as a full.
This.
Fitzgerald is a pro; these 12 minutes of exercises seem to work for a ton of people.
Dry needling helps me when I have knotty IT band. My PT also works on mine by hand massage, and gets better results than I can by myself.
When random pains come up like this, sometimes it means your body can't keep up with the wear and tear at this point in time. If you rest, it may heal and allow you to handle the same mileage/intensity in the future, without problem. But you've got to give your body a break first. Either some time off, lower mileage for a few days (or weeks) and/or lower intensity for a while. Build the rest days/weeks into your training schedule to try to stay ahead of it.
Best up luck on healing asap!
GettingFasterDude wrote:
When random pains come up like this, sometimes it means your body can't keep up with the wear and tear at this point in time. If you rest, it may heal and allow you to handle the same mileage/intensity in the future, without problem. But you've got to give your body a break first. Either some time off, lower mileage for a few days (or weeks) and/or lower intensity for a while. Build the rest days/weeks into your training schedule to try to stay ahead of it.
Best up luck on healing asap!
Thanks! I'm pretty diligent about stretching and not doing stupid things but I guess sometimes things happen.
lucy the unbanned wrote:
Dry needling helps me when I have knotty IT band. My PT also works on mine by hand massage, and gets better results than I can by myself.
Yep. A really good PT manually getting it out helps.
Jecht, call Christina Murphy in Columbus. My last PT retired and referred me to her.
jamb innnnn wrote:
lucy the unbanned wrote:
Dry needling helps me when I have knotty IT band. My PT also works on mine by hand massage, and gets better results than I can by myself.
Yep. A really good PT manually getting it out helps.
Jecht, call Christina Murphy in Columbus. My last PT retired and referred me to her.
Thank you! I've heard that name before; she may be a runner. Shoudl I tell her "Jamb Inn" referred me? haha
I've used FFL in Polaris and other locations. I also looked at ART but not sure if it's worth it.
Your symptoms sounds exactly like a problem my friend had before NYC marathon. I wouldn't run through it. His diagnosis turned out to be pretty bad. Take some time off first. He had a chipped bone on his knee along with tear there.
Lacrosse ball. Lay on it at the side of the hip. Scream for 15 minutes. Can work wonders.
Moo G wrote:
Your symptoms sounds exactly like a problem my friend had before NYC marathon. I wouldn't run through it. His diagnosis turned out to be pretty bad. Take some time off first. He had a chipped bone on his knee along with tear there.
How did he tear it and get the chipped bone?
I think one thing I may have done is run on a weird road (crown) on Saturday, but I always run to the side as everyone says, not on the middle.
I ran today and it felt better as I went faster. When sitting or flexing the knee it feels a little achy like something's locking it. But I am doing the hip/glute strengthening exercises to see if that's the issue and at least make them stronger.
Moo G wrote:
Your symptoms sounds exactly like a problem my friend had before NYC marathon. I wouldn't run through it. His diagnosis turned out to be pretty bad. Take some time off first. He had a chipped bone on his knee along with tear there.
I think it may be that. Did 17 and was fine until Mile 16 yesterday, but galloped the last mile...literally...the left hip was pullign forward and the right knee was in pain.
Went to the PT and they said it was an upper gastroc (not soleus, but above it) and gave me stretches.
Went and did 6 today and started off fine at 9-9:30 for recovery but the last 4 were very painful, 10:30-13:00 pace. I think I will go get an MRI despite the cost. I should have asked him to do a gait analysis but I wasn't thinking.
I know the PT said gastroc but my gut feeling is that it's a knee tear or chip somewhere.
I'm very mad at myself because had I run a better marathon last fall (under 3:15), I probably wouldn't have to run another cycle for WUC and would have just done my normal 4-6 a day in the off-season for base mileage and maintenance.
jecht wrote:
Did 17 and was fine until Mile 16 yesterday, but galloped the last mile...literally...the left hip was pullign forward and the right knee was in pain.
Dude, why didn't you start walking at that point? I don't care about the physical diagnosis, I'm diagnosing you with too much too soon.
It's like you just want to throw money at the problem as you continue to try to run through it. Rest is free. Whatever goal you are misguidedly trying to keep in your crosshairs, forget about it. Right now.
This is approaching LateRunnerPhil levels of running while injured. He quit serious running.
fhdkfjodalc, wrote:
jecht wrote:
Did 17 and was fine until Mile 16 yesterday, but galloped the last mile...literally...the left hip was pullign forward and the right knee was in pain.
Dude, why didn't you start walking at that point? I don't care about the physical diagnosis, I'm diagnosing you with too much too soon.
It's like you just want to throw money at the problem as you continue to try to run through it. Rest is free. Whatever goal you are misguidedly trying to keep in your crosshairs, forget about it. Right now.
This is approaching LateRunnerPhil levels of running while injured. He quit serious running.
Talked to a few others, they all said rest--I'm going to take the week off completely. I remember LRP and what he went through.
And now you're starting threads on racial topics...nevermind, just get back to running. Get that energy out.
jecht wrote:
I'm not sure how I even injured it in the first place. I'm usually durable and ran 1600 miles last year without any major issues.
I'm hoping to run 2/6 but if I can't I'll just run it as a 5k or 10k and not as a full.
I'm late to this, and I'm sorry to hear that you've had this injury. Not sure if you're still checking this thread or can benefit from what I say. I hope you're on the mend.
Not sure how? Well, sometimes you can't know what causes an injury. I know it can be frustrating.
But then there's this: Look at all the recommended plans for resuming running after a marathon. Apart from some differences, generally they prescribe 4 weeks following some consistent rules. More rest/much lower mileage. Return gradually. Only easy running. Yes, only easy running.
Didn't you do a run around 10K pace around a week out from the marathon? And another one faster than marathon pace a week later? I don't know what your overall volume and rest/recovery strategies were like, but those are major red flags.
All of the experts say: Don't run faster than ___ for four weeks, or you'll really risk injury. Your body isn't ready to build fitness again anyway, so you gain approximately nothing but risk losing a ton.
You did exactly what the experts say to avoid. And now you're injured and wondering why?
Maybe we're far enough away from the marathon for those missteps to have had no direct effect on your current injury, but I'd still urge you to make an honest assessment of your mindset and training.
You've done a lot of great things this year. Enjoy that and be proud of it. You have a lot of great running and incredible joy ahead of you.
Right now, I'd say that the goal is to run the way experts say to safely overcome injury then rebuild mileage and fitness gradually. Note: I didn't say, "the best of a bunch of bad options that will still let me race on 2/6." You can't force these things. Truly, of course, if a doctor, a PT, and a certified coach monitor your progress and say you can push hard, I wouldn't suggest otherwise. They know much, much more than I do.
But still, your body will dictate the timeline, and it doesn't care about a February race date. Do the right things, and you'll get back to where you were, and then you'll keep making progress. Keep trying to force it, and you'll risk a host of bad things.
You put in fantastic effort. You have a good attitude. You've made some good adjustments from what you learned, you often ask good questions, and you've resolved to keep working at it. Just add the last major piece of the puzzle you need. The pacing issues in your marathon and the injury issue now are telling you something. Listen.
Countless runners make similar kinds of mistakes (too much, too soon; not enough easy days; trying to race a workout; trying to push the pace in a marathon; etc. -- I know I've been susceptible to some of these errors at times and have had to deal with the unpleasant consequences). That's why good coaches are constantly trying to remind all runners to avoid them.
As ever, best of luck to you.
jecht wrote:
I'm very mad at myself because had I run a better marathon last fall (under 3:15), I probably wouldn't have to run another cycle for WUC and would have just done my normal 4-6 a day in the off-season for base mileage and maintenance.
I don't know if you'll find this helpful, but I'm also very puzzled when I see you saying things like this and wonder why you're making decisions based on this kind of perspective.
You were in no worse than 3:15 shape in October. Any dissatisfaction you feel over the 3:20 can't be corrected by trying to prove something to yourself by training too hard now. 3:20 vs. 3:12-3:15 was solely the result of your pacing (or nearly so, given what you reported about fueling/water, ... and you probably could've helped yourself with a better plan on LRs 3-4 weeks out).
It really, really is that simple. You didn't meet the 3:15 goal because you made some poor pacing decisions on race day and because pacing itself is a skill you haven't mastered. That's OK; nearly everyone's done that. Don't let that guide you into other unhelpful choices.
Before the race, if you had resolved to go 1:37:45/1:36:15 then followed that plan, you'd have run that (and maybe a bit faster). It was also easy to identify a problem: If you go out faster than 1:35, you'll almost certainly hit the wall, and your best-case scenario is probably a hard fade around 22-24. You went out well faster than 1:35 ... and you hit the wall. You didn't fail to get into 3:15 shape; you didn't have a bad day with GI issues or the flu. Pacing is the beginning and end of what happened on race day.
I don't think it's useful to be mad at yourself at all. It's good to assess your situation, learn from it, and act on useful info. I really hope you're able to set aside the kinds of altered perspectives that frustrate runners (I'm not fit enough, I HAVE to do THIS NOW, I can get fitter and faster than expert coaches say I can if I just push harder, ...).
How's this? "I'm happy I got myself into 3:15 shape. The race was a tough pill to swallow, but I learned from it. I'm following a good plan, and I know how to pace now. Maybe I can go 3:10-3:12 in April or May."
Of course, that's not really the situation now, given the little step back with the injury. I hope you recover quickly and have a good plan moving forward.
And I think it will be great if you eventually get into 3:00 shape. I just don't want you to feel incredibly frustrated, then come on here posting, "After two years of injuries, I decided to follow a good, gradual plan, and it took 18 months, but I finally broke through. I thought I was in 3:00 shape, but I ran a 3:11." The follow-up questions will come in: What did you do? "Well, it was going great. I did the first half in 1:26, then everything fell apart at mile 20. I'm so mad that I can't run any faster than 3:11."
Help yourself out. There's a better way.
I wish you well.
jamb innnnn wrote:
lucy the unbanned wrote:
Dry needling helps me when I have knotty IT band. My PT also works on mine by hand massage, and gets better results than I can by myself.
Yep. A really good PT manually getting it out helps.
Jecht, call Christina Murphy in Columbus. My last PT retired and referred me to her.
Had a good experience today. Dry needling and ART. Entire appointment took 40 minutes.
It was a Baker cyst and some fluid buildup. She seemed positive about getting me in shape. I'll follow up with her in a few weeks!