"I love the pain of a hard long run": Shelby Houlihan is moving up to the Half/Full Marathon in her return.

hot sauce wrote:

Am I the only one that hopes she doesn’t return to competitive running after her ban is up?

No, I agree. There should be a lifetime ban in the first offense.

hot sauce wrote:

Am I the only one that hopes she doesn’t return to competitive running after her ban is up?

No. I agree. It's like Justin Gatlin. You can't trust anything they do so you find yourself rooting against them. But I also agree that is seems like it takes longer for testing to catch the athletes at longer distances. I have no facts but there seems to be plenty of suspicion but how many Olympic marathon medals are getting stripped from an athlete due to doping?

Shelby moving up to longer distances will be a must see. I'm willing to watch and see how well she does. But I hate to say it the doping comments are going to be said. Just like Gatlin and his comeback. You have to wear a thick skin. Even the commentators made their thoughts well known when he raced. Gatlin stuck it out and didn't respond. I'm sorry but Shelby is going to hear a lot initially. It will be up to her if she'll tolerate the expected and press forward.

Please don't turn this thread into a doping thread, there are plenty of those (I'M SERIOUS). I'm talking about after her ban is lifted so no need to talk about it. [/quote]

Yeahhh so I think it's relevant to talk about her doping (conviction) because I have zero interest in what she does if/when she comes back & hopes US races won't pay her appearance fees on the roads.

hot sauce wrote:

Am I the only one that hopes she doesn’t return to competitive running after her ban is up?

I wish she had never been banned in the first place. We’re going to look back on this anti-doping stance and shake our heads in 20 years. It’s just like athletes who were banned from competition for being pro vs. amateur. That was seen as some wildly unfair advantage.

We’re talking about athletes using science and medicine to be healthier, better athletes. No wonder so many anti-vaxxers are anti-dopers. It’s anti-science.

I am not an expert by any means on the drug testing regulations but I believe she does get tested unless she officially retires. But if she does retire and decides to come back, that "retired" time does not count as part of her 4-year ban. In other words, if she retires two years into her 4-year ban and then unretires two years later, she will still remained banned for two more years. She can't just retire for four years to avoid getting tested and then unretire and start racing again right away.

Jgt11 wrote:

Nobody is competitive with Gidey except for the 2 women who beat her in the Olympic 10k ... and the women who beat her at the Ethiopian trials.

+1

When Gidey beats Hassan head to head in a race that matters, then we can say she is the best in the world. Right now, she is #2. After Gidey ran the crazy half marathon it was if the Tokyo 10K never happened, but it did. She was obliterated in the last lap. As for Houlihan, more power to her for having a positive attitude. Let's check back in about her in a few years.

Cheeto Burrito wrote:

I am not an expert by any means on the drug testing regulations but I believe she does get tested unless she officially retires.

Correct - you can check here:

She had 9 tests until 9-5. Now, over two months later, she's at 11. Somewhat steady at 1 test per month in 2021.

Most USADA-tested runners this year, unless I overlooked one, are currently Rupp and Centro with 16 tests each (surprise - lol). Next up with 14 are Igbokwe (also banned for doping), Jager, and Hasay.

Armin Tamzarian wrote:We’re going to look back on this anti-doping stance and shake our heads in 20 years.

I highly doubt that. Most people are glad that the unlimited hard-core doping era of the 80s is over.

Having said that, we need to go away from the self-policing (no American or Kenyan testers for American or Kenyan athletes) and change this into a fair + standardized international effort. And more transparency would help.

How can she feel pain doped to the gills? Duh.

She tested positive and her ban is legitimate. She also has the right to compete in 4 years when the ban expires. At her age the half full marathon is a good option.

She's a cheater, and needs to go away forever.

Stating straight facts today wrote:

She's a cheater, and needs to go away forever.

I guarantee everyone who says things like this roots for at least one doper. You all don't have a problem with people who dope. You only have a problem with people who get caught doping.

Stating straight facts today wrote:

She's a cheater, and needs to go away forever.

^^^

What the heck? what is going on? Why do we care? She's a banned athlete. Why are we SO desperate to believe she has somehow been wronged? There is zero evidence to suggest she was. It wasn't from a burrito. It wasn't a trace amount. She cheated. Or she accidentally ingested nandrolone and lied to everyone about where it came from and is still lying to everyone about where it came from.

If the Bowerman Track Club wants to die on this hill so be it. Letting her train with them destroy's their credibility as much as "speaking out" at the Olympic trials did. They are making this big show or being victimized when really the most sound explanation here is that she cheated and got caught.

It's so ridiculous to watch people still give Shelby all this rope that she straight up doesn't deserve. Ask yourselves do you think the running community would do the same for someone else? I wonder if the Bowerman Track Club would do the same for an athlete of color that they had or that used to be a part of their group? I just can't imagine that would be so.

only wrong if you get caught? wrote:

Stating straight facts today wrote:

She's a cheater, and needs to go away forever.

I guarantee everyone who says things like this roots for at least one doper. You all don't have a problem with people who dope. You only have a problem with people who get caught doping.

in a lot of cases, the only way to know that someone is doping for sure is for them to get caught. So yes, I have a problem with dopers. I didn't know that Shelby was doping before she was caught. Now that she was caught, I have a problem with her.

There are athletes who I can reasonably guess are aided by PEDs who I don't like even if they haven't tested positive. But for the most part, you can't know until you know.

Exactly. I am also sure that, based on the numbers, some of my acquaintances are shtheads. When I see or hear about one of my acquaintances being a shthead, I tend to change my relationship to that person. I don't think less of my other acquaintances who might secretly be shtheads, I go off what I know. Otherwise I'd just sit in the corner afraid of engaging with anyone.

only wrong if you get caught? wrote:

I guarantee everyone who says things like this roots for at least one doper. You all don't have a problem with people who dope. You only have a problem with people who get caught doping.

What's your point? What do you think we should do in light of this relative certainty? Not be so hard on Shelby? Not root for anyone? Stop following professional running? Like I'm serious, I want to know what you're even trying to say, if anything.

avonaioen wrote:

only wrong if you get caught? wrote:

I guarantee everyone who says things like this roots for at least one doper. You all don't have a problem with people who dope. You only have a problem with people who get caught doping.

in a lot of cases, the only way to know that someone is doping for sure is for them to get caught. So yes, I have a problem with dopers. I didn't know that Shelby was doping before she was caught. Now that she was caught, I have a problem with her.

There are athletes who I can reasonably guess are aided by PEDs who I don't like even if they haven't tested positive. But for the most part, you can't know until you know.

But your knowledge of someone's doping isn't what makes the doping wrong. It is wrong whether you know about it or not.

only wrong if you get caught? wrote:

avonaioen wrote:

in a lot of cases, the only way to know that someone is doping for sure is for them to get caught. So yes, I have a problem with dopers. I didn't know that Shelby was doping before she was caught. Now that she was caught, I have a problem with her.

There are athletes who I can reasonably guess are aided by PEDs who I don't like even if they haven't tested positive. But for the most part, you can't know until you know.

But your knowledge of someone's doping isn't what makes the doping wrong. It is wrong whether you know about it or not.

What is this, a middle school philosophy class? While we are at it, don't forget x = x. What is your point?