This just means the Warthog doesn't have the leg speed turnover to get to sub 45.
Hurdlers have to massively exaggerate their range of motion at the expense of turnover and I guess you can't expect them to adjust that for a flat event.
Just goes to show the inherent silliness of hurdle events. Having to jump over stuff when running is pretty rare, why make it a specialty?
Disappointing, but that doesn’t change my mind that I think he’s capable of a sub 44. Hurdles take energy and momentum, and energy and momentum are very important in the 400m. Definitely worth much more than fractions of a second IMO. Data for the most part seems to back that up too
Probably hard to take training seriously when you just came off a peak where you demolish a WR and win a gold medal.
Perhaps he does have potential in the 800m, as a true sprinter would have effortlessly ripped through their ENTIRE jersey.
I was thinking 44.50 for Karsten because he probably has the lowest differential between hurdles and flat. I don’t think his run tonight was representative of what he can do. Add his best he can probably run low 44.00 to 44.3.
Actually Benjamin is quite fast at the flat races. Which tells you exactly how much the juice is helping the WWE of track and field guy. I rip my jersey off cause I strong.
Warholm flat pr 45.05 might be a touch faster now but not much, sorry fan boys
Benjamin flat pr 44.31 might be the fastest guy to ever contend in the 400h
wejo wrote:
Coming off his crazy 45.94 in the hurdles at the Olympics many expected big things from Karsten Warholm in the 400m flat race today but he was only able to run 45.51 with no barriers.
Wonder if he would have run faster if they put up a couple of barriers for him.;)
I mean sure, bad wind for a 400m (headwind in the backstraight), first race back after Tokyo - but the over-estimation of his abilities on the flat based on the hurdles WR were always comical. This is absolutely not a reflection of what his ceiling is in this event - but to even suggest a WR was ever possible for him sadly exposes a knowledge void with how the 400m and 400mH works.
Why? Muhammad ran 3 seconds off of her Olympic 400 hurdle time. If she ran the open 400 today, you would be saying the same thing about her. What if Warholm was 3 seconds off today also? That is just as likely.
Only 4 men have ever run <44 at Lausanne, 3 of whom were Olympic champions and 2 of which held the 400m WR.
Why in the world, logically, would Warholm have been in the discussion in the 400 flat?
WinnytheBish wrote:
frt56 wrote:
He faded a bit in the stretch. Looked tired.
People do tend to look tired on the stretch.
But was he relaxed?
^ 4 were 400m Olympic champions (Van Niekerk, Johnson, James, Merritt).
Warholm's not in this league.
As a former hurdler, and anyone who ran the hurdles (and was good) would agree, for a good hurdler, it doesn’t take much additional energy. The hurdles are 36 inches. For tall athletes they just lift their lead leg up a fraction of an inch higher than a normal stride and wrap the trail leg around, again a fraction higher than a normal stride . I’m 5’8 so I actually had to use some extra energy as 36 inch hurdles are right at my hip.
I’m not saying you don’t lose any time from flat to hurdles, but a tall guy like Karston is not using much additional energy on the hurdles. It’s pretty close to a flat for him.
wejo wrote:
Coming off his crazy 45.94 in the hurdles at the Olympics many expected big things from Karsten Warholm in the 400m flat race today but he was only able to run 45.51 with no barriers.
Wonder if he would have run faster if they put up a couple of barriers for him.;)
I can’t believe the level of idiocy on this board. He runs 45.5 on a possibly slow track and people are still making excuses for him. Ok, so it’s late in the season, he’s tired after the Olympics, and Lausanne hates 400m. Maybe you could make a case for 44.9, but certainly not sub 44.
The fastest is angelo taylor
Watching the first turn of the race, I was still convinced he was going to hurdle something...
Yes, he’s a 44 flat guy maybe under.
Definitely an Olympic hangover.
The 400 is a different animal.Intermediate hurdlers don't have the
leg speed to be great quarter milers,that's why they take up hurdling.
The 400 hurdle is a speed rhythm event whereas the 400 is a speed strength event.
The greatest intermediate hurdler Edwin Moses at his peak couldn't break 45 for
the flat 400.Warholm at best is a 44.5 to 45 qtr miler.
llort_vbo wrote:
WinnytheBish wrote:
People do tend to look tired on the stretch.
But was he relaxed?
+1
I agree that he’s likely good for a low 44. Olympic fatigue combined with subpar racing conditions and not hard to rationalize why he “only” ran 45.xx
Haters are gonna hate but also the fanboys who thought he was sub 43 shape are dreaming
Warholm =Juiced wrote:
Actually Benjamin is quite fast at the flat races. Which tells you exactly how much the juice is helping the WWE of track and field guy. I rip my jersey off cause I strong.
Warholm flat pr 45.05 might be a touch faster now but not much, sorry fan boys
Benjamin flat pr 44.31 might be the fastest guy to ever contend in the 400h
Angelo Taylor was a 44 flat guy, but Benjamin may be able to beat that. Warholm is a juiced up fraud.
What were Jones’ and Moses’ 100m PBs?
Do we know any KW in-training short sprint times from 2021-present?
What did KW and the winner split for 100m and 200m today?
44 low would give KW a typical discrepancy of 400F-400H ,
Warholm =Juiced wrote:
kinda tells you all you need to know about how juiced he really was at the olympics, his hurdling self would have finished just behind his flat 400 self.
By that logic, was the American Benjamin also “juiced”?
this just proves my point that people get into the hurdles and steeplechase because they aren't fast enough to WIN and deep down know it - they need a new event that less people do to win races/medal
anyone that is truly great at 100m has zero interest in hurdling
and truly great 200-800 runners don't decide to do the 400m hurdles
truly elite and dominating distance runners dont decide to do steeplchase either
its the very very good, but not GREAT runners that smartly decide to make the switch as a best case scenario to WIN (emma coburn, evan jager are good examples).
No true runner grows up dreaming in high school to be a steeplechase GOD