I wonder if she could have beaten Hassan in the 5k in Tokyo
I wonder if she could have beaten Hassan in the 5k in Tokyo
Absolute clown show
jasonHason wrote:
World Athletics should address the situation once and for all. Mboma amd Masilingi are killing it at Junior Worlds this week. The gaps there are even more ridiculous than at the Olympics. Beating the field by more than a second in the 200m? Come on.
Well everyone knew that the rules as they are were only made to exclude one athlete. That's why they were so frowned upon.
Now the scientists that formulated the study which was used to exclude Semenya from the 400 to mile have now said that actually their study was nothing more than inference.
It is quite obvious to anyone with a brain that if the DSD athlete is able to utilise their excess testosterone (not all can) then the benefits would be greatest in the power events, and least in the distance events. So any ban which came in should have drawn a single line somewhere, probably 1000m.
ex-runner wrote:
jasonHason wrote:
World Athletics should address the situation once and for all. Mboma amd Masilingi are killing it at Junior Worlds this week. The gaps there are even more ridiculous than at the Olympics. Beating the field by more than a second in the 200m? Come on.
Well everyone knew that the rules as they are were only made to exclude one athlete. That's why they were so frowned upon.
Now the scientists that formulated the study which was used to exclude Semenya from the 400 to mile have now said that actually their study was nothing more than inference.
It is quite obvious to anyone with a brain that if the DSD athlete is able to utilise their excess testosterone (not all can) then the benefits would be greatest in the power events, and least in the distance events. So any ban which came in should have drawn a single line somewhere, probably 1000m.
In an ideal world, any ban should have included the shortest event, the longest event and then everything else in between.
It will be sad if they manage to excluded these runners
Interest in women sport will go down if they do that
I will surely be watching Niyonsaba’s next race
ex-runner wrote:
jasonHason wrote:
World Athletics should address the situation once and for all. Mboma amd Masilingi are killing it at Junior Worlds this week. The gaps there are even more ridiculous than at the Olympics. Beating the field by more than a second in the 200m? Come on.
Well everyone knew that the rules as they are were only made to exclude one athlete. That's why they were so frowned upon.
Now the scientists that formulated the study which was used to exclude Semenya from the 400 to mile have now said that actually their study was nothing more than inference.
It is quite obvious to anyone with a brain that if the DSD athlete is able to utilise their excess testosterone (not all can) then the benefits would be greatest in the power events, and least in the distance events. So any ban which came in should have drawn a single line somewhere, probably 1000m.
Since when do men only beat women in distances shorter than 1k? If theres an advantage, which there clearly is, its over all events, not just a few events.
khcglhc wrote:
It will be sad if they manage to excluded these runners
Interest in women sport will go down if they do that
I will surely be watching Niyonsaba’s next race
Nah. It would have been sad seeing Athing Mu getting a minor medal or nothing at the Olympics though.
Athing would have suffered the same fate as Gabby Thomas of worse if the rules hadnt been updated.
makes no sense wrote:
accurate wrote:
these things are making a mockery of women's sports
Yes, it’s not right. She didn’t pick her genetics, but that shouldn’t affect the career of others.
I don’t understand how DSD are celebrated, and I couldn’t imagine them having any pride whatsoever. Do I blame them for competing with a natural unfair advantage? No, get that money while you can. But still, it is patently unfair to non-DSD female runners. Every article on any event with a DSD participant should mention it.
To paraphrase Tombstone: “I’m not saying you can’t run. Heck, I’m not saying you can’t compete. I’m just saying you can’t compete against non-DSD women for money or medals.”
trollism wrote:
khcglhc wrote:
It will be sad if they manage to excluded these runners
Interest in women sport will go down if they do that
I will surely be watching Niyonsaba’s next race
Nah. It would have been sad seeing Athing Mu getting a minor medal or nothing at the Olympics though.
Imagine how amazing that 800m would have been!!!
Mu probably would have run 1:54 low
It would have been the greatest 800m ever
khcglhc wrote:
trollism wrote:
Nah. It would have been sad seeing Athing Mu getting a minor medal or nothing at the Olympics though.
Imagine how amazing that 800m would have been!!!
Mu probably would have run 1:54 low
It would have been the greatest 800m ever
It would have been an absolute hot steaming mess.
Sooner they sort out the other events the better.
The advantage was obvious in the 800m, it was obvious when Semenya could get a 1500m medal as a "400/800" type, it is obvious now, when a 1:55 800m "woman" can run a 9:00 2 mile and 30:40 10k (under tough conditions) after training a year or less for the longer distances. Niyonsaba is "only" a medal threat in the longer distances, not a medal lock like in the 800m but the 200/400m Namibians are already close to the world best at ca. 18 yo after a year of training. WA has to act NOW or women's athletice will become a clown show.
It is absurd to demand "further science" if something is so blatantly obvious to the naked eye.
If one wants to keep women's sports attractive DSD persons with "naturally high" testosterone have to be banned from competing with xx-women with normal testosterone levels in any t&f event, not in only in a few of them.
And yes, it is not only because it is unfair to normal women but also because it might become a dubious freak show with coaches looking for intersex persons to get them quickly on the world stage.
Women's sport on it's deathbed due to political correctness. Russia is an entire country banned for less advantage than this.
ex-runner wrote:
jasonHason wrote:
World Athletics should address the situation once and for all. Mboma amd Masilingi are killing it at Junior Worlds this week. The gaps there are even more ridiculous than at the Olympics. Beating the field by more than a second in the 200m? Come on.
Well everyone knew that the rules as they are were only made to exclude one athlete. That's why they were so frowned upon.
Now the scientists that formulated the study which was used to exclude Semenya from the 400 to mile have now said that actually their study was nothing more than inference.
It is quite obvious to anyone with a brain that if the DSD athlete is able to utilise their excess testosterone (not all can) then the benefits would be greatest in the power events, and least in the distance events. So any ban which came in should have drawn a single line somewhere, probably 1000m.
Your statement that DSD (or male) athletes have a larger competitve advantage at sprint / "power" events over distance events is neither obvious nor correct.
Testesterone and XY genes result in larger hearts, larger lungs, lower body fat and higher bone density all of which are beneficial to distance runners. The Male to Female WR ratio is remarkably consistent from 100 meters to the marathon with men being being 9 to 12 percent faster at every event .
10.49/9.58= 1.09
21.34/19.19=1.11
47.60/43.03= 1.11
1:53.28/1:40.91= 1.09
3:50.07/3:26.00=1.12
14:06.62/12:35.36= 1.12
29:01.03/26:12=1.11
2:14:04/2:01:39=1.11
To be blunt, having small or unusual male genitalia does not make you female. I have nothing agsinst FN or runners in simlar situations but she isn't female and shouldn't be running against XX females.
9ujjoo wrote:
[quote]ex-runner wrote:
[quote]jasonHason wrote:
To be blunt, having small or unusual male genitalia does not make you female. I have nothing agsinst FN or runners in simlar situations but she isn't female and shouldn't be running against XX females.
Lets keep repeating this fact and stop using the term "intersex" to confuse the isssue.
These are XY men born with genital deformities which haven't prevented them from developing secondary male sex characteristics. They are not "intersex". They are male.
I am not a DSD hater. Like many have said, they didn't choose how they born. If you find you are good at something you are going to pursue it and they should.
The only thing that has always struck me funny (strange) about Niyonsaba is that she is the only runner in the field wearing shorts. Take that inference for what you will. I don't care what runners wear and there are plenty of elites that choose to wear shorts rather than spandex....and hey maybe it's a religious thing.
Just a bit strange that is all. You don't hear much from her, so who knows. But some athletes in similar situations complain about undue attention, but seemingly do things that are going to bring that attention.
It's time to have a third category in athletics, whether it's in "demonstration races" or as an actual category like "men" and "women", both on the elite level and at the school level. DSD and non-binary individuals, plus trans women who don't want to lower their testosterone can compete against each other. I can understand why some individuals in this category don't want to mess around by taking medication to lower their testosterone and they should have a right to compete in athletics just as they are. This is the only way I can see to have open and fair competition.
runnerdave wrote:
It's time to have a third category in athletics, whether it's in "demonstration races" or as an actual category like "men" and "women", both on the elite level and at the school level. DSD and non-binary individuals, plus trans women who don't want to lower their testosterone can compete against each other. I can understand why some individuals in this category don't want to mess around by taking medication to lower their testosterone and they should have a right to compete in athletics just as they are. This is the only way I can see to have open and fair competition.
I had the same thought, maybe “intergender” as the category. The issue with this is whether or not athletes would be willing to participate. As an intersex woman you’d have so much more to lose facing off against transgender men/women. That being said, I really do think too much of this is gimmicky and needs to be dealt with unapologetically.
If intersex athletes are a minority under “x” amount, let them compete with women under certain rules. If intersex athletes are more common in the sport give them their own category/event. Inclusion and respect are important, but that doesn’t mean “the latest issue is the only issue”.
Easy to run fast when you're born with a twig and berries
What concerns me, as a female runner whose training/performance has always fluctuated based on my menstrual cycle, etc., is that these athletes are seemingly not experiencing these same training effects because they do not have a menstrual cycle, womb, ovaries...
Adjusting T levels is not a satisfactory leveling of the playing field here, and it still super sucks for women with "women things" to be competing against women without.
It's as if the IAAF does not understand internal female anatomy, or they just really don't care about women.