More impresive Zatopek's triple or Hassan's triple ?

Zatopek only cause I'm a card carrying mysoginistic racist

They are two different eras. Hard to compare, perhaps an unfair comparison. Still, hard to argue with three gold medals. I give the nod to Emil Zatopek.

Watch the 5000m finish, what a killer move. Sure he's not exactly running 12:40 but it's still quite the burst.

https://youtu.be/EmiPIstRZj4

Meanwhile, I have to laugh at the idea that Laura Muir is somehow exempt from suspicion of doping while Hassan isn't. Oh, I forgot, white people never dope! How foolish of me....

SDSU Aztec wrote:

paul72 wrote:

yeah-any triple with a marathon in it trumps a track triple....

At the time, the marathon was for people too slow to be competitive on the track. In 1972, Shorter was the first world class 10K guy to compete in it. In Zatopek's era the best distance runner's avoided it as if it was an ultra. Abebe Bikila was the exception before Shorter.

Not sure what your definition of world class is, but Zatopek set Olympic records in the 5000 and 10,000. He had also won silver in the 5000m in London on 1948 and in 1954 set the world record.

Zatopek held the WR in the 10,000m from 1949 until 1954 (except for about 2 months during that stretch).

So I am not sure how he is not work class.

Luv2Run wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

At the time, the marathon was for people too slow to be competitive on the track. In 1972, Shorter was the first world class 10K guy to compete in it. In Zatopek's era the best distance runner's avoided it as if it was an ultra. Abebe Bikila was the exception before Shorter.

Not sure what your definition of world class is, but Zatopek set Olympic records in the 5000 and 10,000. He had also won silver in the 5000m in London on 1948 and in 1954 set the world record.

Zatopek held the WR in the 10,000m from 1949 until 1954 (except for about 2 months during that stretch).

So I am not sure how he is not work class.

Zatopek was world class, but my point is that no one else in the marathon field was.

yeah, sure wrote:

800m jogger wrote:

Hassan easily, competitive running was in the developmental stage back then. The level of competition isn't comparable to the level competition today. Would zatopek medal in any of those events today?

He would have won the 3 women's races with ease.

Doubtful. His marathon PR is 9 minutes slower than Kosgei.

Hassan had to beat 3 fields of massively doped runners, there was not doping in Zatopeks era. Hassan’s is more impressive

Hassan, easy.

"All" you had to do back in the day was have a shred of talent and work ethic, and you could rule the world. And of course, you had to ignore common training wisdom, and blunder onto better methods. Every so often someone would do that, and you'd have a world beater.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

paul72 wrote:

yeah-any triple with a marathon in it trumps a track triple....

At the time, the marathon was for people too slow to be competitive on the track. In 1972, Shorter was the first world class 10K guy to compete in it. In Zatopek's era the best distance runner's avoided it as if it was an ultra. Abebe Bikila was the exception before Shorter.

Shorter was most certainly not the first world class 10K guy to compete in the marathon. Mimoun, won silver in the 10K in 1948 and silver in both 5K and 10k in 1952 (all 3 times losing to Zatopek) before winning the Olympic marathon in 1956. He also was a 4x individual winner of the international world XC championships.

Probably the first great distance runner to run the marathon was Kolehmainen, who won 3 Olympic Golds in 2012 (5K, 10K, XC) before winning the marathon in 2012. He also held the 5K WR. But there were others. Ritola was 2nd at Boston before winning 4 golds and 2 silvers in the 1924 Olympics and held the10K WR twice.

zyyzz wrote:

I would argue that Zatopek's is more impressive since training was such primitive back then, even if it was probably better than half of current day highschool training

Primitive training is one of the reasons why Zatopek's is *less* impressive

yeah, sure wrote:

800m jogger wrote:

Hassan easily, competitive running was in the developmental stage back then. The level of competition isn't comparable to the level competition today. Would zatopek medal in any of those events today?

He would have won the 3 women's races with ease.

And my pet dog could win all 3 of the men's, if trained properly. Not particularly impressive though from an athletic perspective

Salazar project

yeah, sure wrote:

800m jogger wrote:

Hassan easily, competitive running was in the developmental stage back then. The level of competition isn't comparable to the level competition today. Would zatopek medal in any of those events today?

How much competition did Hassan really have? A past-her prime Obiri and a time trialer with zero kick. In her only competitive race she was crushed.

Zatopek destroyed the WR holder and also the defending champion in the marathon. In the track races Mimoun would have been the best runner of that era if not for Zatopek and went on to win the marathon gold 4 years later. Pirie went on to hold the 5K WR.

I think women's distance depth today is pretty comparable to men's in the early 50s.

Your last statement is insane. Women are running the men's times of that era despite having female physiology. Women's running is only a bit less competitive than mens is today

griles17 wrote:

yeah, sure wrote:

How much competition did Hassan really have? A past-her prime Obiri and a time trialer with zero kick. In her only competitive race she was crushed.

Zatopek destroyed the WR holder and also the defending champion in the marathon. In the track races Mimoun would have been the best runner of that era if not for Zatopek and went on to win the marathon gold 4 years later. Pirie went on to hold the 5K WR.

I think women's distance depth today is pretty comparable to men's in the early 50s.

Your last statement is insane. Women are running the men's times of that era despite having female physiology. Women's running is only a bit less competitive than mens is today

But shes running in the clown shoes, on the clown surface, which are worth 1-2 mins in a 10k minimum.

Cropper is right. Coevett’s White supremacist posts are tacky and tedious. The impact of colonialism can’t be overstated.

As to the question: it’s just hard to compare two different eras. Hassan’s athletic feat is objectively more impressive for reasons others have stated. But Zatopek showed us real distance running greatness built on high volume training a decade before it was en vogue. So, if you’re thinking like a historian, then significance can transcend performance sometimes. This is why Bikila is in conversation for GOAT status—because he heralded the most important change in distance running by signaling the emergence of East African athletics.

Is Hassan’s impact going to be as great? It’s possible that she’ll be remembered for her courage, and if you combine her performances with the bold front running displayed by Cheruiyot, Ingebrigtsen, Cheptegei, etc., then maybe we’ll look back on this era as one where elite running showcased bolder tactics and perhaps greater athleticism than previous eras. Only time will tell.

Due to changes in technology and training knowledge, I think you have to compare athletes to their era. The modern era is more competitive, but it was also hard to run well in Zatopek's era due to poor shoes, tracks, and lack of training knowledge.

One reason Zatopek was so beloved was how open he was about his training. He was one of the first athletes to do year round training. Athletes used to stop training over the winter and resume in the spring and compete until winter signaled it was time to stop. Year round was revolutionary and a real game changer and lead to a rapid improvement in depth of top times and world records in the 1950s. If I recall correctly the 4k world record was broken 5 times by 3 different men in 1955.

Another part of his training that Zayopek openly shared was interval training. At the time interval training was relatively unknown. Some athletes did it but were afraid to share. Zatopek openly told everyone. People played with the variables of frequency, number of intervals, distance, pace, rest, etc until they found interval sessions that worked for them. Zatopek also ran good volume. So more athletes were doing year round training, higher mileage, and intervals. Zatopek was probably the most influential athlete on training knowledge in history. He changed the game.

Meant to say 5k record not 4k record

Hassan went absolutely deep into the well for that 10k. She looked exhausted at the starting line and didn't even smile or wave at the camera... Afterwards she was on the ground for 10 minutes screaming for ice packs. Like everyone says it's hard to compare what she did to Zatopek but good lord she is tough as hell.

Zatsu ft very easy w wrote:

Zatopek and it's not even close.

Ran faster times in 1952 despite garbage sand track, heavy leather spikes with nails at the bottom for traction, limited training knowledge, zero coaching - had to work out how to train himself, training as an amateur around his career as a soldier, no EPO or other drugs, poor accommodation had to sleep outside on some nights during the 1952 Olympics, poor nutrition with his nation having just come out the ravages of WW2 etc etc

That the guy even managed to run competitively was an achievement when you look at what he was up against. Zatopek also seemed to be genuinely loved by all of his competitors which says something about his character.

+1 And doping was not widespread, while Hassan is highly suspect after her NOP transformation.