No. Centro won gold, Hocker got 6th. The time is immaterial here. Hocker is the future, likely a similar trajectory to Centro 10 years ago, but this goes to show how biased people are toward times versus head to head matchups. It seems like half of this board is still coping with the fact that Centro won gold and the time was slow, and will do anything to discount that performance.
This thread is insane. The love for Hocker and the hate for Centrowitz from their own fellow citizens transcends rationality.
fujimaster wrote:
Rai Benjamin's silver is more impressive than almost any previous gold to me.
This is an acceptable thing. Hockers time and competition is better than Centro. It was more impressive.
Is my high school 4:38 dual meet win more impressive than the guy that get 5th at state in a loaded field with a time of 4:12? Absolutely not.
Your problem here is that you're comparing a dual meet to the state meet.
I'd rather be state champ in 4:14 than 4th in 4:12 in the same field.
College coaches would prefer that too.
remember 84? wrote:
fujimaster wrote:
Rai Benjamin's silver is more impressive than almost any previous gold to me.
This is an acceptable thing. Hockers time and competition is better than Centro. It was more impressive.
Is my high school 4:38 dual meet win more impressive than the guy that get 5th at state in a loaded field with a time of 4:12? Absolutely not.
Your problem here is that you're comparing a dual meet to the state meet.
I'd rather be state champ in 4:14 than 4th in 4:12 in the same field.
College coaches would prefer that too.
Exactly. Centro beat all of the best runners in the world. Including 1 person who had run 3:26 the year before, and 3 others with 3:28 lifetime bests.
You didn't read the thread.
"Of course, I'd rather be lucky and have gold than 6th place."
Is it such a strange idea to imagine that multiple variables might be in play and that luck might be the more determinate variable in any single race?
Does anyone really think that the 100 meter race in 2011 proved that Blake was the fastest man that year when Bolt false started?
A Gold Medal is a Gold Medal.
missBS wrote:
Hear me out……hocker runs 3:31, bests the former OR, PRs by 2 seconds after PRing by 2 seconds in the semifinal, and gets 6th in a loaded field in his FIRST world final event.
This, to me, is more impressive than the cr*p-shoot that was the 2016 final that went out in like 2:18, setting up a free for all, where the best tactician, not the best runner, won.
In 2020, the best runner won, and the best runners in the world placed where they should have, that being at the front of the pack.
This race is more impressive than Centros gold, and certainly better than the 3:49 Centro ran a couple weeks ago.
So dumb......Hocker's 6th place is faster than every previous Olympic Champ!!! So by your logic Hocker's 6th place, is more impressive than not just Centro, but also Herb Elliot, Peter Snell, Kip Keino, Pekka Vasala, John Walker, Seb Coe, Peter Rono, El G., Noureddine Morceli, Noah Ngeny, Kiprop, Mahkloufi....and many more. Nonsense, pure nonsense, go sit in the corner!!!
Centro will always be introduced as Olympic Gold Medalist, Matt Centrowitz. Hocker gets introduced as Olympian (or worse "former Olympian").
missBS wrote:
Hear me out……
Nope.
missBS wrote:
Hear me out……hocker runs 3:31, bests the former OR, PRs by 2 seconds after PRing by 2 seconds in the semifinal, and gets 6th in a loaded field in his FIRST world final event.
This, to me, is more impressive than the cr*p-shoot that was the 2016 final that went out in like 2:18, setting up a free for all, where the best tactician, not the best runner, won.
In 2020, the best runner won, and the best runners in the world placed where they should have, that being at the front of the pack.
This race is more impressive than Centros gold, and certainly better than the 3:49 Centro ran a couple weeks ago.
Dumbest take ever. Centro has a faster PB and an Olympic GOLD MEDAL. I can't wrap my head around how you did the mental gymnastics to come up with this nonsense.
Arete wrote:
You didn't read the thread.
"Of course, I'd rather be lucky and have gold than 6th place."
Is it such a strange idea to imagine that multiple variables might be in play and that luck might be the more determinate variable in any single race?
Does anyone really think that the 100 meter race in 2011 proved that Blake was the fastest man that year when Bolt false started?
All of your examples are when there was someone missing from the field.
Centro beat one of the strongest 1500m fields ever. Everyone was healthy and present.
No luck involved. A race is a race. Some races start slow and end fast, some races start fast and end slow, some races are evenly run.. all we know is that everyone in the race is doing the best they can to win. And Centro won.
By your logic, Jacob was lucky today because the race wasn’t slow enough to allow someone to outkick him.
Arete wrote:
Gold in 3:50 cries out very, very lucky.
Watch the Rio 1500 again. Centro took control. There was very little luck involved. He owned it.
Agreed w the guy who said he’d rather have Olympic gold than 6th place, BUT Hockers was more impressive.
I am not arguing 6th > 1st. I know that gold is better than 6th. What I am saying is that Hocker running 3:31 and getting 6th is more impressive of a result than Centro running 3:50 for first.
I believe this because 1) a sit and kick, especially one as aggressive as 2016, is “anyone’s race”, not necessarily the best runners race, 2) Hocker PRing by 4 seconds in 2 days to take 6th in his first ever global final at AGE 20 as a college freshman is better than Centro sprinting 400m at age 27 after having been pro for 6+ years, 3) I don’t believe Centro could have ever done what Hocker just did today, even at his peak (his LIFETIME PR is exactly 1.00 seconds faster than what Hocker did TODAY, and I don’t see him running 3:31.4 in a championship final ever, he’s simply too much of a tactitan to ever run a fast pace at a global final and do well).
Feel free to disagree, but Hockers performance today is simply better, all things considered, than Centro 2016.
Shut up.
All things considered!!! Consider that one has an Olympic Gold!! Aaaand the other has nada!!!
fujimaster wrote:
Rai Benjamin's silver is more impressive than almost any previous gold to me.
This is an acceptable thing. Hockers time and competition is better than Centro. It was more impressive.
Is my high school 4:38 dual meet win more impressive than the guy that get 5th at state in a loaded field with a time of 4:12? Absolutely not.
Your high school dual meet was not an Olympic final, and it did not result in an Olympic gold medal. Ridiculous post.
3) I don’t believe Centro could have ever done what Hocker just did today, even at his peak (his LIFETIME PR is exactly 1.00 seconds faster than what Hocker did TODAY.,..
Read what you wrote here…. So the guy that ran a second faster could never have run a second slower at his peak??? What?
Yes, what I meant was, Centro ran 3:30.4 in a race where he was 10th and got smashed by nearly 4 seconds by the winner. That race was a time trial, not a championship race. He never sniffed a time close to that in a championship race, as a “sit and kick” was more his style than the “hard from the gun” that was used today.
What I should have said was, for a very brief point in his career he was physically capable of running a 3:31.4, but it was in a time trial setting, not a global final setting. I don’t believe he could have ever run that in a championship setting like Hock did today.
Do you find Centro’s 3:30 PR more impressive than Hocker’s 3:31?
remember 84? wrote:
Arete wrote:
Gold in 3:50 cries out very, very lucky.
The race is not always to the swiftest, but I do love it when we get to see a race where all the athletes run their best: London 2012 800; Tokyo 2020 400 hurdles
Any single race may be more influenced by random variables than actual talent: illness, weather, accidents (a trip, a missed SC hurdle, etc.). Centro's gold falls into this category for me; Coburn's gold (with Kenyan's missed hurdle); Blake's gold (Bolt's false start in 2011).
That said, Centro has more to his resume than the 3:50 gold. And I'm very impressed by Hocker!
Can we stop with this? The goal of racing is to win. This frantic obsession with times reeks of chronic Milesplitism, where time rankings seem more important than race results.
I'd be willing to bet you're one of those athletes I see so frequently at HS races these days, staring at your Garmin over the last 100 meters while others pass you. You'd rather run 16:30 and place 80th than run 17:00 and be in the top 30.
It's a race, y'all. Not a group time trial.
I agree to an extent. Centro's 1500 time would have LOST in several WOMEN's 1500 meter races in the Olympics.
If Galen Rupp wins the marathon tomorrow in 2:35 because the lead pack decided to cruise at a high school girl time for half the race would you think it was an impressive performance (I would not).