LRC. Where are you bashed for training too hard but also bashed for not willing to push the envelope hard enough.
LRC. Where are you bashed for training too hard but also bashed for not willing to push the envelope hard enough.
I don't agree wrote:
jonathon wrote:
Are you talking about that long hilly tempo run he did on sweat elite?
These are his last work-outs in a marathon build-up. They are usually not super great work-outs. Any marathoner will tell you that their worst work-outs are usually the last ones in their training cycle. Marathon fitness isn't like shorter events.
I don't actually agree with this, I've run between 2:10-2:15 (don't want to give specifics because I don't like drawing any potential attention to myself) and some of my best workouts ever were at the end of a marathon buildup. Sure, sometimes you don't have a great one, but if you don't have any that somewhat indicate a fast marathon then you should be worried. I'm talking a long effort at or near a good marathon pace. You don't have to be right on, but if you are struggling to run a 10+ mile workout within 10 seconds of your supposed marathon pace then you should be a little bit worried when you're a month or less from the marathon. I do not know what this workout was that the post is about, but it sounds like it was a longer workout and that Jake didn't look great and it was also not very fast. We're in the home stretch here, you should be able to run near marathon pace for these workouts even with all the mileage.
Now to the person saying you'd be surprised if he runs 2:12, look at the weather. He has run 2:10 twice, both on cooler weather days. This is going to be 75 degrees and 80% humidity, he's not going to be anywhere near 2:10, very few people will. If he does somehow run 2:12, he'll probably be around 10th-15th place and I'd call that a solid showing.
Great post - pretty much spot on. I also agree 2:12 would be a FANTASTIC result for Jake in Tokyo (Sapporo).
i just watched the video and i agree with others that the word "tempo" doesn't really apply here. at least the way i use that word, which is basically to indicate anaerobic threshold or one-hour race pace. after watching the video i guess the 4 mile out and back was supposed to be a tempo effort, but i think the 5K back to the car was always intended to be a race-type effort. jake was definitely going to the well as you could hear in his breathing. troop seems like a cool dude but i do kind of question even talking about times or course records when you seem to be all about the whole concept of not repeating your mistakes by shooting your load too early. it's an inconsistent message, but then again riley is old enough that he shouldn't be getting caught up in that stuff.
looks like a fun place to run.
Don't worry about the splits from his tempo in the Sweat Elite video. That route he did is very hilly, has a pretty soft surface, and was done in full sun with moderately bad air quality.
I can tell not many on here have done a run at teller farms or "the tank". It is not just hilly, much of it has terrible footing. There is also no shade whatsoever on that run. So even if it is 75 degrees out, if the sun is out it feels like it is in the 90s. I'm more surprised they risked a badly rolled ankle this close to the olympics.
Trucker Hat wrote:
He’s not a medal contender so why care? Finishing 4th at the Olympics is no different then 400th. Guys like him play it safe at the Olympics because they know they can’t medal. So they run for top 10 or whatever. Pick up the carnage of those whom bonked going after a medal. Thats exactly what Jared Ward did. He's likely playing it safe in training just like he will play it safe in the race. He’s just happy to be there.
Good grief! Everything in life is not the top 3 in the Olympics. Even if you are capable, you may not be feeling your Cheerios that day and end up 20th when on paper you were 3rd...that's why they run it.
A video workout is being posted, enjoy the video and be grateful that it's there to watch and you can see how hard he works. Why rip the guy?
Someone has to finish 23rd.
Do you do much marathon training, OP? I'm sure Lee Troop knows exactly what he's doing. He shared Riley's Trials build up a while ago:
16 week block:
Mon: 50-60min PM: 35min
Tues: Session PM: 35min
Wed: 1hr 45min
Thu: 50min PM: 35min
Fri: Session PM: 35min
Sat: 50-60min PM: 35min
Sun: 2hr 30min
3hr long run 6 weeks out.
((18M marathon progression run 3 weeks out. Sessions = Hills, Fartleks, Tempos, Intervals.))
Two hard sessions, a quality long run, a medium long run, a lot of easy running, to make up 100+ mile weeks.
Looks pretty good to me. Marathon training is about consistency. This thread isn't about Sara Hall & this website routinely bashes women but I would say that the Hall's are known for hard training & inconsistent racing. Riley will be ready to rock it.
I don't agree wrote:
jonathon wrote:
Are you talking about that long hilly tempo run he did on sweat elite?
These are his last work-outs in a marathon build-up. They are usually not super great work-outs. Any marathoner will tell you that their worst work-outs are usually the last ones in their training cycle. Marathon fitness isn't like shorter events.
I don't actually agree with this, I've run between 2:10-2:15 (don't want to give specifics because I don't like drawing any potential attention to myself) and some of my best workouts ever were at the end of a marathon buildup. Sure, sometimes you don't have a great one, but if you don't have any that somewhat indicate a fast marathon then you should be worried. I'm talking a long effort at or near a good marathon pace. You don't have to be right on, but if you are struggling to run a 10+ mile workout within 10 seconds of your supposed marathon pace then you should be a little bit worried when you're a month or less from the marathon. I do not know what this workout was that the post is about, but it sounds like it was a longer workout and that Jake didn't look great and it was also not very fast. We're in the home stretch here, you should be able to run near marathon pace for these workouts even with all the mileage.
Now to the person saying you'd be surprised if he runs 2:12, look at the weather. He has run 2:10 twice, both on cooler weather days. This is going to be 75 degrees and 80% humidity, he's not going to be anywhere near 2:10, very few people will. If he does somehow run 2:12, he'll probably be around 10th-15th place and I'd call that a solid showing.
Fair points, but did you watch that Sweat Elite video? IT was a hilly course, and it wasn't even on hard packed ground. It looked uneven and unpacked. No way he could run the same pace on that course as he will run on the road.
His coach was saying he ran super well and crushed his workouts in his marathon build up, but when he arrived for the olympic marathon, he was overcooked so he didn't race well. So he wanted Jake to "be on the up-swing" in these last workouts rather than be perfectly peaked.
I will say that he did seem to be struggling to run 1k repeats at 5:00 pace in a previous sweat elite video. His coach was saying "don't red-line" but you can hear him breathing really fast/hard. So I think that is more indicative of problems. He just seemed to be struggling. Granted that's all at Boulder elevation, not at sea level.
Riley seems like a dude who’ll do anything it takes to succeed. Troop has demonstrated success with lots of athletes.
That said, the Sweat Elite videos show a guy who’s quite possibly over-cooked. He’s not running with control. He seems to be reaching too hard and panicked. As somebody who’s been in that place plenty of times, this doesn’t bode well. The eye test is not good.
I 100% hope I’m wrong and that Jake is just a guy who always seems like he’s working hard. I’ve known those guys.
On the topic of tempo and threshold, watch the Ingebrightsens to seen threshold workouts executed perfectly. Years of blood lactate testing have them programmed to hit the perfect efforts for growth and improvement. They work hard, but don’t do hero workouts.
Runner10287 wrote:
LRC. Where are you bashed for training too hard but also bashed for not willing to push the envelope hard enough.
Always been the case on LR, especially true for US runners. If they don't train hard everyone says they are soft and can't deal with what everybody else is doing.
If they train really hard it's because they are stupid Neanderthals that don't know about modern training.
His workouts look fine for someone in heavy training, at altitude, etc. Go Jake!
Watching him tick up the leaderboard at the end of the trials race gave me chills. Go Jake.
help me break 16 wrote:
I don't agree wrote:
I don't actually agree with this, I've run between 2:10-2:15 (don't want to give specifics because I don't like drawing any potential attention to myself) and some of my best workouts ever were at the end of a marathon buildup. Sure, sometimes you don't have a great one, but if you don't have any that somewhat indicate a fast marathon then you should be worried. I'm talking a long effort at or near a good marathon pace. You don't have to be right on, but if you are struggling to run a 10+ mile workout within 10 seconds of your supposed marathon pace then you should be a little bit worried when you're a month or less from the marathon. I do not know what this workout was that the post is about, but it sounds like it was a longer workout and that Jake didn't look great and it was also not very fast. We're in the home stretch here, you should be able to run near marathon pace for these workouts even with all the mileage.
Now to the person saying you'd be surprised if he runs 2:12, look at the weather. He has run 2:10 twice, both on cooler weather days. This is going to be 75 degrees and 80% humidity, he's not going to be anywhere near 2:10, very few people will. If he does somehow run 2:12, he'll probably be around 10th-15th place and I'd call that a solid showing.
Fair points, but did you watch that Sweat Elite video? IT was a hilly course, and it wasn't even on hard packed ground. It looked uneven and unpacked. No way he could run the same pace on that course as he will run on the road.
His coach was saying he ran super well and crushed his workouts in his marathon build up, but when he arrived for the olympic marathon, he was overcooked so he didn't race well. So he wanted Jake to "be on the up-swing" in these last workouts rather than be perfectly peaked.
I will say that he did seem to be struggling to run 1k repeats at 5:00 pace in a previous sweat elite video. His coach was saying "don't red-line" but you can hear him breathing really fast/hard. So I think that is more indicative of problems. He just seemed to be struggling. Granted that's all at Boulder elevation, not at sea level.
What makes you say he was struggling at 5min pace? His final three reps were 2:49, 2:44, and 2:44. Seems fine to me.
In regards to the tempo, I don't agree with OP. The night prior to the k repeats he said he slept with a bucket by the bed for puking. The next day he did 8x1k, then three days later he ran the the hilly tempo. That sounds like a recipe for a mediocre to dogsht workout to me. If, like a previous poster said, he struggled to hold MP for a 10 mile workout on flat ground then it would be noteworthy. This is not that.
1500>10k wrote:
Been closing following the Sweat Elite workouts. Genuinely worried about his fitness (despite his coach saying he's crushing training).
The workouts he's doing aren't impressive at all. I see All-American collegia ns do better workouts. Even Sara Hall's threshold session was almost as fast (and it was at higher elevation).
I hope he does well in Tokyo, but he seems massively unprepared. I'd be surprised if breaks 2:12. Maybe he's just a racer and doesn't do well in training?
Discuss.
2:12 would actually be a good result for him, especially if it's warm. His training is just fine. He's at a disadvantage due to his size and is not a medal threat on paper so not sure what you're expecting.
Agreed. Jake is happy and lucky to be there, and if he does well awesome.
I wish people would cut these guys some slack. They made the team in Feb. 2020 and honestly, that he’s not injured or overdoing it is good for him.
Meh. I remember seeing his training logs before his breakthrough marathon and thinking they weren't anything special at all and yet he still performed. But there's something to be said about staying healthy and consistently racking up miles at altitude.
Has Jake run any kind of serious race in the last 18 months? He did that virtual 5k race with Jared Ward and struggled to break 15 minutes. I'd bet anyone here he doesn't break 2:15 in Tokyo.
He's very talented. He was never and will never be a medal threat. He might run 2:10 for top 10.
The difference between 9th and 25th in 2:17 is not really meaningful.
Great video, it was great to see the give-and-take between Riley and his coach. I especially liked Jakes comment on how you need a coach to "Talk you down from the ledge" after some sessions to avoid killing your race with overtraining.
My own philosophy is "better 10-% undertrained than1% overtrained." I should make a shirt....