Who's Going and Who's Staying wrote:
hl wrote:
Odd how often this happens.
But how exactly did World Athletics determine they are both intersex?
It was a big European meet. Probably she was tested on this for the first time and the testosterone levels were high. Kind of a crazy situation. I never want to be the one to say anything but I think many if not all observers were thinking this after watching it.
Who's Going and Who's Staying wrote:
hl wrote:
Odd how often this happens.
But how exactly did World Athletics determine they are both intersex?
My understanding is that World Athletics requires testosterone tests of women entered in the World Championships and the Olympics.
I guess that Mboma and Masilingi could have run as many races as they wanted to in their home country, but once they tried to enter the World Championships, World Athletics got involved.
Can we at the very least demonstrate some kindness toward these women. They didn't ask to be born this way, it wasn't a choice that they made. They grew their entire lives as women and high testosterone levels doesn't change that reality for them. Yes I agree with the decision by world athletics to restrict their participation but can we not treat them like dopers or intentional cheats. Have heart, they're still people
THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
Who's Going and Who's Staying wrote:
But how exactly did World Athletics determine they are both intersex?
It was a big European meet. Probably she was tested on this for the first time and the testosterone levels were high. Kind of a crazy situation. I never want to be the one to say anything but I think many if not all observers were thinking this after watching it.
Which big European meet was Mboma entered in?
Bydgoszcz meet just now where she ran 48.5 was a Continental Tour Gold event which means there is testing and jurisdiction by World Athletics at a significant level.
I am going to delete the other thread on this topic. To all of thsoe who said it was unconscionable that we were allowing people to discuss what was going on, I don't expect to receive an apology.
Yes it was a sensitive issue. But it also was a very important one just weeks out before the Olympics.
What happened yesterday had never remotely been seen before by an 18-year old woman. If you didn't wonder what was going on - hypernadrogenism, doping or the greatest phenom in history by a long shot - then you aren't a true student of the sport.
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rojo wrote:
I am going to delete the other thread on this topic. To all of thsoe who said it was unconscionable that we were allowing people to discuss what was going on, I don't expect to receive an apology.
Yes it was a sensitive issue. But it also was a very important one just weeks out before the Olympics.
What happened yesterday had never remotely been seen before by an 18-year old woman. If you didn't wonder what was going on - hypernadrogenism, doping or the greatest phenom in history by a long shot - then you aren't a true student of the sport.
that’s so disingenuous, even for your standards
no one said it was unacceptable to talk about, but many said it was ridiculous that performances by white athletes aren’t given anywhere near the same amount of scrutiny
people on this trash website tear apart mboma or gwen berry or tara davis while bending over backwards to defend shelby, the one person of those three who willingly and obviously cheated as a decision she made
gee, i wonder why
since we're on the topic does anyone have any insight as to why they determined this rule should only apply to 400 through mile? i read the official rule and explanation but all they say is that the middle distance events were where the performances of intersex athletes were the best (the "semenya rule" i guess). but how is it not an advantage to have higher levels of testosterone in literally any other event or athletics in general?
i am asking out of curiosity. i support non-conforming gender identities and i don't wanna hear any political takes. in sport we have to be scientific or at least data-driven about it so those are the takes i want to hear.
karma is real wrote:
I'm tired wrote:
Can we at the very least demonstrate some kindness toward these women. They didn't ask to be born this way, it wasn't a choice that they made. They grew their entire lives as women and high testosterone levels doesn't change that reality for them. Yes I agree with the decision by world athletics to restrict their participation but can we not treat them like dopers or intentional cheats. Have heart, they're still people
having a heart isn’t in the white grievance playbook
steve and his ilk won’t ever turn down an opportunity to bash a minority of any kind, even for things they have absolutely no choice over
they’re scared babies and clowns who live in constant fear of the world changing
I'm white and most of my favorite female athletes are black. It's not about race. I simply don't want my favorite 100% female athletes getting beat by intersex athletes, regardless of their skin color.
karma is real wrote:
that’s so disingenuous, even for your standards
no one said it was unacceptable to talk about, but many said it was ridiculous that performances by white athletes aren’t given anywhere near the same amount of scrutiny
people on this trash website tear apart mboma or gwen berry or tara davis while bending over backwards to defend shelby, the one person of those three who willingly and obviously cheated as a decision she made
gee, i wonder why
i agree that there's a lot of racism on these boards (all thoroughly denied of course), but i would say the vast majority of the posters (NOT the brojos) think shelburrito and BTC are full of s.hit and laugh at her defenders.
fethullah gulen rupp wrote:
since we're on the topic does anyone have any insight as to why they determined this rule should only apply to 400 through mile? i read the official rule and explanation but all they say is that the middle distance events were where the performances of intersex athletes were the best (the "semenya rule" i guess). but how is it not an advantage to have higher levels of testosterone in literally any other event or athletics in general?
i am asking out of curiosity. i support non-conforming gender identities and i don't wanna hear any political takes. in sport we have to be scientific or at least data-driven about it so those are the takes i want to hear.
The reason is that the CAS hearing into the Semenya case determined that there was only sufficient research data on the effects of testosterone in women's events to uphold the IAAF testosterone rules in the events between the 400m and the mile.
I'm tired wrote:
Can we at the very least demonstrate some kindness toward these women. They didn't ask to be born this way, it wasn't a choice that they made. They grew their entire lives as women and high testosterone levels doesn't change that reality for them. Yes I agree with the decision by world athletics to restrict their participation but can we not treat them like dopers or intentional cheats. Have heart, they're still people
+1
Do they use the results of a normal drug test?
How would this be allowed ?
fethullah gulen rupp wrote:
since we're on the topic does anyone have any insight as to why they determined this rule should only apply to 400 through mile? i read the official rule and explanation but all they say is that the middle distance events were where the performances of intersex athletes were the best (the "semenya rule" i guess). but how is it not an advantage to have higher levels of testosterone in literally any other event or athletics in general?
i am asking out of curiosity. i support non-conforming gender identities and i don't wanna hear any political takes. in sport we have to be scientific or at least data-driven about it so those are the takes i want to hear.
Question - how is it not an advantage to have higher levels of testosterone in literally any other event or athletics in general?
The simple answer is yes, it is.
The more complex answer is that a few years ago when the ruling was made by the court, all of the intersex runners were only running events from 400 - 1 mile. So the court decided to only ban intersex athletes in those events. This was NOT a decision made by World Athletics all by itself, it was a decision pushed onto World Athletics by the court system.
If intersex athletes start winning Olympic and World Championship medals at events outside of 400 - 1 mile, I suspect World Athletics will have to go back to court and try to get permission to change the current rules.
fethullah gulen rupp wrote:
since we're on the topic does anyone have any insight as to why they determined this rule should only apply to 400 through mile? i read the official rule and explanation but all they say is that the middle distance events were where the performances of intersex athletes were the best (the "semenya rule" i guess). but how is it not an advantage to have higher levels of testosterone in literally any other event or athletics in general?
i am asking out of curiosity. i support non-conforming gender identities and i don't wanna hear any political takes. in sport we have to be scientific or at least data-driven about it so those are the takes i want to hear.
I was also curious and never saw any data to back up their 400-mile claims. I personally think it was a (possibly racist) reaction to what was happening in the 800 at that time. I think the rule is a good one that should be extended to all the women's events.
There should be events that allow intersex athletes to compete, but only on a level playing field. It's not been fair to female 800 meter and 1500 meter athletes for years and now it's effecting sprints.
So yes, let them compete but just add a non-binary event to an itinerary.
Absolutely unconscionable to allow them to compete against natural female athletes.
thermann9 wrote:
There should be events that allow intersex athletes to compete, but only on a level playing field. It's not been fair to female 800 meter and 1500 meter athletes for years and now it's effecting sprints.
So yes, let them compete but just add a non-binary event to an itinerary.
Absolutely unconscionable to allow them to compete against natural female athletes.
Prediction - In the not too distant future, there will be a 3rd category added to the Olympics for intersex and transgender athletes.