Athing Mu is a phenom but Ajee Wilson was tactically brilliant.

rojo wrote:

I was watching Ajee the whole time. To be able to run a totally different race than she normally does was brilliant. So impressed by that.

Kate Grace was way too impatient and way way too much extra distance.

Wilson was 7th with 100 to go.

I thought Ajee was struggling. She likes to be at the front or near it but she was getting swallowed by the pack in the second lap. The last 150m was desperate stuff. I wasn't expecting her to come through - and maybe neither was she.

Mu, on the other hand, is at another level - from everyone. She owned the field at the finish like Semenya used to. It looks like cis-women (sorry!) are taking back this event.

Ajee is not done - had an imperfect build up but she will be in better shape for the Olympics. Pretty amazed she got the third spot. Either she got lucky or stayed calm and executed. Can’t tell for sure.

I need to re watch to see what raevyn did. Amazing pr by the collegian!

Lastly heart broken for Kate grace. Feel like she could have made it in the 15. Think she’s faster than the others aside from Elle and would have had an even better shot once SH was out. She chose the 8 a few hours before SH news came out. Painful.

Armstronglivs wrote:

It looks like cis-women (sorry!) are taking back this event.

??? Seriously man? That's straight up insulting, you know...?

Sopa de Sabadell wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

It looks like cis-women (sorry!) are taking back this event.

??? Seriously man? That's straight up insulting, you know...?

Not insulting. The truth.

rojo wrote:

I was watching Ajee the whole time. To be able to run a totally different race than she normally does was brilliant. So impressed by that.

Kate Grace was way too impatient and way way too much extra distance.

Wilson was 7th with 100 to go.

For a Yale grad, that was certainly a dumb race. Attempted a pass on the curve 2x. Kicked on back stretch way too early. Over striding the whole way. Think she had 3rd with a smarter race.

run with the wom wrote:

Sopa de Sabadell wrote:

??? Seriously man? That's straight up insulting, you know...?

Not insulting. The truth.

Unless there is some actual evidence out there, this kind of baseless garbage needs to be deleted immediately.

Big Mike wrote:

run with the wom wrote:

Not insulting. The truth.

Unless there is some actual evidence out there, this kind of baseless garbage needs to be deleted immediately.

A cisgender person (sometimes cissexual, informally abbreviated cis) is a person whose gender identity matches their sex assigned at birth. For example, someone who identifies as a woman and was identified as female at birth is a cisgender woman. The word cisgender is the antonym of transgender.

did wrote:

You’re right - Athing Mu ran a phenomenal and tactically brilliant race.

Mu exposed the rest of the American 800 meter runners as frauds. They are not elite runners running 2:00 800 meters Those are also-rans. They are not competing on the international level. Without Mu we would have seen the top 3 as viable medal winners Over the last 100 meters Mu made the other women like they were running in quicksand. The 800 meter women have had it too easy for too too long . Get that 2:00 crap outta here!

Karma Police wrote:

Geez I thought she was really poor tactically. Initially in an ok position, but made the cardinal mistake of allowing herself to be pushed back. She was good enough to make it through despite her tactics, not because of them.

This^

high school xc coach wrote:

A cisgender person (sometimes cissexual, informally abbreviated cis) is a person whose gender identity matches their sex assigned at birth. For example, someone who identifies as a woman and was identified as female at birth is a cisgender woman. The word cisgender is the antonym of transgender.

Apologies for not knowing the terminology. I thought this was insinuating DSD.

When was transgender an issue in this event?

Big Mike wrote:

high school xc coach wrote:

A cisgender person (sometimes cissexual, informally abbreviated cis) is a person whose gender identity matches their sex assigned at birth. For example, someone who identifies as a woman and was identified as female at birth is a cisgender woman. The word cisgender is the antonym of transgender.

Apologies for not knowing the terminology. I thought this was insinuating DSD.

When was transgender an issue in this event?

It is an issue when anyone who isnt XX with ovaries and no testes competes. That has included Semenya, Nyambui and the other Rio "women's" medallist, whose name I can't recall. The first 3 at Rio were all intersex athletes. XY athletes with testes who identify as women can compete in this event but only if they reduce their testosterone levels to below 5nml, which is below male levels.

Mu looks like the American "Radusha" - all that talent in a body that is uniquely designed for an incredibly difficult event. Wow. Just harnessing that natural ability with good training and no injuries and I believe we will see extra-ordinary performances from Mu.

Just wow.

I'm not sure that all three were intersex. I think Caster and Wambui are intersex while Niyonsaba has hyperandrogenism.

What strikes me as strange is that Athing Mu is considered a prodigy rather than being examined in a more critical light. Her progression is staggering. If she were mid-career, the doping accusations would be rampant. The progression is akin to a high-school boy with good potential (~8 seconds in 2 years).

How many women are in the sub 1:56.08 club? 30

Only Caster, Niyonsaba, Ajee Wilson, Pamela Jelimo, Tatyana Andrianova, Jolanda Ceplak and Janeth Jepkosgei have ran faster for 800m in the last 20 years.

2x Intersex (Caster, Niyonsaba)

2xDrug Cheats (Adrianova, Ceplak)

1xAdverse finding (Ajee)

1xlinked to doping (Jelimo)

2xClean (Jepkosgei and Athing Mu)

How many women are in the 49sec and 1:56 club?

Caster, Kratochvilova, Ana Fidelia Quirot and Athing Mu.

I'd would love to believe that Athing is a multi-generational talent but I'm quite skeptical. I think my skepticism would be lessened if I knew how long she's been in the testing pool. Does anyone know where to find the list of how many times athletes have been drug tested?

Armstronglivs wrote:

Sopa de Sabadell wrote:

??? Seriously man? That's straight up insulting, you know...?

Insulting to whom? You? Is there something you want to tell us?

Frankly, I have no interest in seeing males who identify as females running the women's 800m. And in case you misunderstand me, I am not including Mu in that category.

The whole transgender type thing is so ridiculous and simple.

If you are XY, you can't run in women's events. And it's not invasive to test for.

high school xc coach wrote:

Big Mike wrote:

Unless there is some actual evidence out there, this kind of baseless garbage needs to be deleted immediately.

A cisgender person (sometimes cissexual, informally abbreviated cis) is a person whose gender identity matches their sex assigned at birth. For example, someone who identifies as a woman and was identified as female at birth is a cisgender woman. The word cisgender is the antonym of transgender.

I thought cis was cos theta+ i sin theta. Learn something new.

Karma Police wrote:

rojo wrote:

I was watching Ajee the whole time. To be able to run a totally different race than she normally does was brilliant. So impressed by that.

Kate Grace was way too impatient and way way too much extra distance.

Wilson was 7th with 100 to go.

Geez I thought she was really poor tactically. Initially in an ok position, but made the cardinal mistake of allowing herself to be pushed back. She was good enough to make it through despite her tactics, not because of them.

I agree. She wasn’t good at all. Ran a stupid race and got lucky enough that something opened up.

Karma Police wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Insulting to whom? You? Is there something you want to tell us?

Frankly, I have no interest in seeing males who identify as females running the women's 800m. And in case you misunderstand me, I am not including Mu in that category.

The whole transgender type thing is so ridiculous and simple.

If you are XY, you can't run in women's events. And it's not invasive to test for.

You dont know the rules. XY can run in women's events. But they are now subject to restrictions limiting their testosterone in selected events. It isnt an issue that has been properly resolved but has provoked a lot of debate.

I think you are correct about the Rio medallists, but the point I was making is they had male biological advantages, chiefly in high testosterone. Because of the rule changes we aren't seeing them now in the 800.

Your points about Mu are interesting. The main reason that no one wants to ask the doping question is because she is American. Look at the reluctance here and amongst American runners to accept the verdict of a court in relation to a convicted doper with Shelby Houlihan.

I tend to think a mid-career spike is more suspicious than dramatic improvement in the late teens. However, in this sport I have learned that anything too good to be true probably is. If Mu runs 1.54 or better and puts herself in the company of only Kratochvilova and Jelimo I would think she's doing what most top athletes are doing now to succeed.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Karma Police wrote:

The whole transgender type thing is so ridiculous and simple.

If you are XY, you can't run in women's events. And it's not invasive to test for.

You dont know the rules. XY can run in women's events. But they are now subject to restrictions limiting their testosterone in selected events. It isnt an issue that has been properly resolved but has provoked a lot of debate.

I mean what it should be. XY can’t run in the protected women’s event category.