When people point to shoes being the reason kids are running fast, I look at stuff like this and have a hard time believing it's the shoes. If you want to run 3:58, you have to either be stupid talented or not train like a HSer. Kessler got the best of both worlds and got 3:34. Sahlman, Martin, and Burns are training like college kids, and it's getting results.
Do you know Martin's training? Based on info published on this site (interview, etc.), his mileage is pretty low, compared to a typical college runner, no??
When people point to shoes being the reason kids are running fast, I look at stuff like this and have a hard time believing it's the shoes. If you want to run 3:58, you have to either be stupid talented or not train like a HSer. Kessler got the best of both worlds and got 3:34. Sahlman, Martin, and Burns are training like college kids, and it's getting results.
Props to Burns for putting in the work to get 3:58. One day we'll look back at the 2010s and wonder why every HS stud wasn't training like college kids.
I think it’s ignorant to ignore the shoes. You can look at times across the board since the shoes came out. You can compare NCAA times this year and 10 years ago and the 48th place in each region is roughly 3-5 seconds per mile faster for every event. Is every college in America training that much harder than 10 years ago? Of course not. So I think it’s obvious the shoes are giving us these faster times at a rate if 3-5 seconds per mile. You can’t really deny it with facts.
The real question is does it matter? I say no. The goal of shoes is to minimize the wasted energy and get closer to the optimal performance. You can look at shoes over the last 60 years and see every new technological innovation made runners faster and get closer to that coveted optimal performance. These shoes took a huge step in that direction. The mistake people make is saying, “they only ran fast because of the shoes.” Who cares. They ran closer to the optimal performance of their body and that’s a good thing.
When people point to shoes being the reason kids are running fast, I look at stuff like this and have a hard time believing it's the shoes. If you want to run 3:58, you have to either be stupid talented or not train like a HSer. Kessler got the best of both worlds and got 3:34. Sahlman, Martin, and Burns are training like college kids, and it's getting results.
Do you know Martin's training? Based on info published on this site (interview, etc.), his mileage is pretty low, compared to a typical college runner, no??
You guys are amazing with such narrow perspectives. Kids in the 80s ran upwards of 120-miles a week, training like college kids. Kids nowadays are training with phenomenal quality, 40-60 miles per week or less with very dense workouts and very relaxed recovery days. They build upon workouts and workout after races. Night and day from training of the past.
When people point to shoes being the reason kids are running fast, I look at stuff like this and have a hard time believing it's the shoes. If you want to run 3:58, you have to either be stupid talented or not train like a HSer. Kessler got the best of both worlds and got 3:34. Sahlman, Martin, and Burns are training like college kids, and it's getting results.
Props to Burns for putting in the work to get 3:58. One day we'll look back at the 2010s and wonder why every HS stud wasn't training like college kids.
I think it’s ignorant to ignore the shoes. You can look at times across the board since the shoes came out. You can compare NCAA times this year and 10 years ago and the 48th place in each region is roughly 3-5 seconds per mile faster for every event. Is every college in America training that much harder than 10 years ago? Of course not. So I think it’s obvious the shoes are giving us these faster times at a rate if 3-5 seconds per mile. You can’t really deny it with facts.
The real question is does it matter? I say no. The goal of shoes is to minimize the wasted energy and get closer to the optimal performance. You can look at shoes over the last 60 years and see every new technological innovation made runners faster and get closer to that coveted optimal performance. These shoes took a huge step in that direction. The mistake people make is saying, “they only ran fast because of the shoes.” Who cares. They ran closer to the optimal performance of their body and that’s a good thing.
“Across the board” is a bit misleading. Times have only gotten faster at lower levels. Elite times for depth are the same or slower than they were 5-10 years ago. So unless the shoes only improve slower runners, there’s no evidence that they work — just great marketing by Nike (as they have always done).
Using elite times is the best proxy for isolating (shoe) improvement. Elite runners are closer to max potential so there’s less noise in the numbers. The further you get away fromelite, the less translatable the delta in the data will be.
If all elementary school students started running the mile 20s faster than they were running 10 years ago — there’s a lot of factors that could contribute to that.
I think it’s ignorant to ignore the shoes. You can look at times across the board since the shoes came out. You can compare NCAA times this year and 10 years ago and the 48th place in each region is roughly 3-5 seconds per mile faster for every event. Is every college in America training that much harder than 10 years ago? Of course not. So I think it’s obvious the shoes are giving us these faster times at a rate if 3-5 seconds per mile. You can’t really deny it with facts.
The real question is does it matter? I say no. The goal of shoes is to minimize the wasted energy and get closer to the optimal performance. You can look at shoes over the last 60 years and see every new technological innovation made runners faster and get closer to that coveted optimal performance. These shoes took a huge step in that direction. The mistake people make is saying, “they only ran fast because of the shoes.” Who cares. They ran closer to the optimal performance of their body and that’s a good thing.
“Across the board” is a bit misleading. Times have only gotten faster at lower levels. Elite times for depth are the same or slower than they were 5-10 years ago. So unless the shoes only improve slower runners, there’s no evidence that they work — just great marketing by Nike (as they have always done).
Using elite times is the best proxy for isolating (shoe) improvement. Elite runners are closer to max potential so there’s less noise in the numbers. The further you get away fromelite, the less translatable the delta in the data will be.
If all elementary school students started running the mile 20s faster than they were running 10 years ago — there’s a lot of factors that could contribute to that.
The shoes improve efficiency, no? This would imply that slower runners have a better return on investment with the shoes since the top level guys are already highly efficient.
Definitely impressive, but the reason it isn't huge news is because there have been recent faster times from sophomores. Rheinhardt Harrison ran 4:01 as a soph.
Hopefully, Burns continues to improve and run well.
Do you know Martin's training? Based on info published on this site (interview, etc.), his mileage is pretty low, compared to a typical college runner, no??
You guys are amazing with such narrow perspectives. Kids in the 80s ran upwards of 120-miles a week, training like college kids. Kids nowadays are training with phenomenal quality, 40-60 miles per week or less with very dense workouts and very relaxed recovery days. They build upon workouts and workout after races. Night and day from training of the past.
Yeah, that's real bright. Run a race ALL OUT effort, aka a RACE, then workout afterwards because they saw Salazar do it with Rupp...so now you're tough if you do that.
D1 Coach Here as well. You must have really burned out and injured a lot of runners. Hopefully you were fired and can't hurt our youth anymore.
When people point to shoes being the reason kids are running fast, I look at stuff like this and have a hard time believing it's the shoes. If you want to run 3:58, you have to either be stupid talented or not train like a HSer. Kessler got the best of both worlds and got 3:34. Sahlman, Martin, and Burns are training like college kids, and it's getting results.
Props to Burns for putting in the work to get 3:58. One day we'll look back at the 2010s and wonder why every HS stud wasn't training like college kids.
I think it’s ignorant to ignore the shoes. You can look at times across the board since the shoes came out. You can compare NCAA times this year and 10 years ago and the 48th place in each region is roughly 3-5 seconds per mile faster for every event. Is every college in America training that much harder than 10 years ago? Of course not. So I think it’s obvious the shoes are giving us these faster times at a rate if 3-5 seconds per mile. You can’t really deny it with facts.
The real question is does it matter? I say no. The goal of shoes is to minimize the wasted energy and get closer to the optimal performance. You can look at shoes over the last 60 years and see every new technological innovation made runners faster and get closer to that coveted optimal performance. These shoes took a huge step in that direction. The mistake people make is saying, “they only ran fast because of the shoes.” Who cares. They ran closer to the optimal performance of their body and that’s a good thing.
One of the best things about distance running on the track was that after people stopped racing on cinder tracks, all the fast times were apples to apples for over 40 years. The fast times now are only comparable to others that were used with the new shoes.
As fast as Burns ran, someone need to get him some form drills asap, that will not hold up over time. sounds like a knock, but I was actually amazed who it was on the replay I saw.
As fast as Burns ran, someone need to get him some form drills asap, that will not hold up over time. sounds like a knock, but I was actually amazed who it was on the replay I saw.
Yeah, I knew results before watching the race and when I saw him running, I would never guessed he can go (muscle) that sub 4. Hope all goes well for him and he goes even faster next year.
*Lukas Verzbicas’ (Sandburg, Orland Park, Illinois) was a HS junior when he ran 3:59.71 in 2011. He graduated early, but technically a junior athletically.
def not. grade is far more important. US highschool seasons are built around yearly training cycles, prepping for xc and track. Someone who is born in july of 2005 is currently a junior, someone born in september of 2005 is currently a sophomore. the junior will have had 6 cycles of prepping for xc and track, the sophomore 4. The junior will have a huge advantage despite being only slightly older. That is why the US has such an emphasis on grade over age. unless there is an obvious advantage/disadvantage, such as if someone graduates HS when they're 19 or 17.
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