Brazier who? Max Burgin 1:44.17

No, he’s equivalent to a college sophomore. Brazier turned 19 in April. Ran 1:43.5 in June.

Burgin turns 19 tomorrow. Runs 1:43.5 possibly never.

YaNo wrote:

He's 18 years old, equal to a HS senior.

This is false because he turns 19 tomorrow. High school seniors do not turn 19 in May of their senior year.

Good run though, worth being rewarded for being the only one following the pacer. Ain't a "race" yet.

abde wrote:

longjack wrote:

timewaste of the day.

18 year old guy returns from injury, runs 144 early season.

comments

he'll choke soon

there is one other guy on the planet did that done that.

he beat 142 guys, but they're no good now.

me

i enjoy guys running well. makes me feel good. like mate, good job.

haters need to go to hell.

The original post directed hate outward, so yeah some is going to come back. I have acknowledged that it is a great run but that he has had great runs by himself in the past that haven't yet translated to world record material when he is in a race with more pressure. Please tell me what of that comment (or acknowledging that Tuka is not currently a 1:42 guy), is inaccurate.

Post directed hate outward?? Wow, had no idea how flowery of an ultra sensitive snowflake some can be. This post is simply following the guidelines of the "Hocker who..." post of recent days. I didn't see anyone post about outward hate there.

shill wrote:

YaNo wrote:

He's 18 years old, equal to a HS senior.

Brazier was 19 and actually only 2 months from turning 20 when he went 1:43.5x at Texas A&M.

With age and progression taken in to account, Brazier's pr @ 19yo is not more impressive than Burgin's pr @ 18yo.

In fact taken with Burgin's 17yo pr of 1:45xx ....or his 1:47xx @ 16yo

I'd say Burgin's trajectory is even better than Brazier.

If Hoppel can beat Brazier right now, then Burgin is in the conversation too now.

Of course, it's still Amos who's the actual #1 going into Tokyo.....he ran 1:41xx at 18 yo

No, he’s equivalent to a college sophomore. Brazier turned 19 in April. Ran 1:43.5 in June.

Burgin turns 19 tomorrow. Runs 1:43.5 possibly never.

This was his first race of the season, and only his 9th track race in the last 3 years. Brazier had over 10 races in the outdoor season before he ran that time, and hadn't broken 1:45 and only once broken 1:46. He then choked in the Olympic trials, not getting out of his heats, and didn't get near his 1:43.5 again for another 3 years. Max today was in the outside lane and nobody to push him in cool conditions and virtually no spectators. Not to mention all the covid disruptions etc. His progress has been steady for years despite some injury problems. Not sure how you can say Brazier was a greater talent at the same age.

New King of 800!. wrote:

abde wrote:

The original post directed hate outward, so yeah some is going to come back. I have acknowledged that it is a great run but that he has had great runs by himself in the past that haven't yet translated to world record material when he is in a race with more pressure. Please tell me what of that comment (or acknowledging that Tuka is not currently a 1:42 guy), is inaccurate.

Post directed hate outward?? Wow, had no idea how flowery of an ultra sensitive snowflake some can be. This post is simply following the guidelines of the "Hocker who..." post of recent days. I didn't see anyone post about outward hate there.

I have no problem with your post, just explained to the actual snowflake who bemoaned "haters" why people fired back to put you in your place. The same as if someone said "Hocker who? Kipsang is the NCAA man to beat", I would understand someone pointing out the beating Cole put on him at indoors. Get it?

Coevett wrote:

Brazier had over 10 races in the outdoor season before he ran that time, and hadn't broken 1:45 and only once broken 1:46. He then choked in the Olympic trials, not getting out of his heats, and didn't get near his 1:43.5 again for another 3 years.

He ran 1:43.9 the following year. That is certainly "near" his 1:43.5. You are a pathological liar.

Coevett wrote:

This was his first race of the season, and only his 9th track race in the last 3 years. Brazier had over 10 races in the outdoor season before he ran that time, and hadn't broken 1:45 and only once broken 1:46. He then choked in the Olympic trials, not getting out of his heats, and didn't get near his 1:43.5 again for another 3 years. Max today was in the outside lane and nobody to push him in cool conditions and virtually no spectators. Not to mention all the covid disruptions etc. His progress has been steady for years despite some injury problems. Not sure how you can say Brazier was a greater talent at the same age.

It feels like Burgin's training/rise has been professionalized a lot more than Brazier's. Brazier was running what like 20-25 mpw in high school (until he was 18)? Then, a large part of what he was doing was sprint training at Texas A&M. He was still splitting 45.xx in the 400 and running fast times at 5K on minimal training. Burgin's been a serious athlete since 15 or 16. It's just a different type of scenario than Brazier, who doesn't feel like he's near his potential as a pro yet even with a 1:42 mark and World Championship Gold.

He is a huge talent, but you can't say he's a bigger talent because he's running fast at a young age.Most world record holders weren't age group record holders.People who run fast early tend to peak earlier.

He is very good.

the beagle wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Brazier had over 10 races in the outdoor season before he ran that time, and hadn't broken 1:45 and only once broken 1:46. He then choked in the Olympic trials, not getting out of his heats, and didn't get near his 1:43.5 again for another 3 years.

He ran 1:43.9 the following year. That is certainly "near" his 1:43.5. You are a pathological liar.

+1

I'd put the odds of him having a Diamond League Championship, global gold medal and World Best by age 22 at about 0.000001%.

Of the two teenage Brits that won tonight, Keeley Hodgkinson was the one that was most promising. She backed up a great indoor season and a European gold medal with a bit outdoor PB in a world class time. Most of all, she ran that race like a championship racer. The move she made around 250m to go was brutal and decisive. She looked easy.

Burgin did well, but front running like that is hard to do when Brazier and Hoppel can sit on that pace and still have enough to kick at the end.

Prediction: Hodgkinson wins a global medal before Burgin

Coevett wrote:

This was his first race of the season, and only his 9th track race in the last 3 years. Brazier had over 10 races in the outdoor season before he ran that time, and hadn't broken 1:45 and only once broken 1:46. He then choked in the Olympic trials, not getting out of his heats, and didn't get near his 1:43.5 again for another 3 years. Max today was in the outside lane and nobody to push him in cool conditions and virtually no spectators. Not to mention all the covid disruptions etc. His progress has been steady for years despite some injury problems. Not sure how you can say Brazier was a greater talent at the same age.

Brazier was running ridiculous times while looking like he was out for a jog. His preparation appeared to be light and relatively low intensity. Everyone could see he had more. Sure enough, he got himself inside the all time top 10 at 22 and is world champion.

Burgin is brilliant and very young but he is currently a full time athlete (see

) and the social/travel restrictions of the last year may well have improved the quality of his training.

Being in the outside lane today next to the pacemaker was absolutely ideal for Burgin and the weather was fine.

Maybe he gets a load of stress fractures and this is his lifetime best, maybe he wipes Rudisha's records off the books. Both are possible but they're both unlikely, especially the latter. None of the athletes above him on the all time junior list broke the world record; only 4 of the 15 ran any faster than their junior best. Andre Bucher is the guy he most brings to mind for me and I have a feeling he'll end up with similar lifetime bests - perhaps a bit faster with better spikes/competition. This would be bloody good!

Anyway, I'm excited about watching him, just not quite as excited as you are in your sad little ethno-supremacist mind palace.

runderun wrote:

Prediction: Hodgkinson wins a global medal before Burgin

Global medal looks more likely than not at this point, she dominated Euros and seems to have great composure. Athing Mu looks like the next decade might be hers for the taking, but that's only 1/3 medal per champs.

runderun wrote:

He's a great talent and a dark horse for a medal but Brazier is not under threat here. Burgin has never had to run rounds or experienced a major champs. Let's see how he works out closer to 2024. Hoppel is still the main threat to Brazier. If Adidas get their super spike sorted in time, then Brazier could be in trouble

WR in 800 & WR in 400 are owned by Adidas Adizero MDs

No one has come close to these times in Nike

Not even close

Brazier's fastest 800 ever registers as 29th fastest 800 performance ever.

Rudisha registered 14 faster performances and 5 of the top 10 ever in Adidas

To your other point, Brazier is definitely under threat here.

Hoppel might be able beat him today, at the trials, and at the Olympics

Great Britain has a boat load of talent

But Amos is the real threat and in fact the # 1 800 runner in the world right now.

He wears Nike. That'll make you happy.

YaNo wrote:

I'd say Burgin's trajectory is even better than Brazier.

Brazier doesn’t have a trajectory - he’s a world champion and the best in the world.

Maybe Burgin will get there, but probably not.

God this place is insufferable sometimes - a kid runs a fantastic performance and next thing it's figurative d$ck measure-off between him and Donovan Brazier who wasn't even in the race, is almost now 5 years older and has probably never even met this kid.

Running is simple and this is simple - irrespective of how much training is happening right now, anyone at the age of 18 who can run 1.44.14 for 800m is a fantastic talent and Max Burgin is a fantastic talent. So was/is Donovan Brazier. So was Steve Ovett.

I mean what does it matter?

Is he the new "king" of the 800m - no? Could he develop into a medal caliber athlete? - absolutely. Will that happen in the next 10 weeks? - doubtful, but he has a better chance than most I would say.

The fact that a young dude just ran basically 1.44 flat and beat some pretty established performers is something to be happy and be excited about - instead it's another opportunity to pick a message board fight with people? Pathetic.

Good job Max Burgin, awesome talent and great to see him running well heading towards (hopefully) Tokyo.

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

God this place is insufferable sometimes - a kid runs a fantastic performance and next thing it's figurative d$ck measure-off between him and Donovan Brazier who wasn't even in the race, is almost now 5 years older and has probably never even met this kid.

Running is simple and this is simple - irrespective of how much training is happening right now, anyone at the age of 18 who can run 1.44.14 for 800m is a fantastic talent and Max Burgin is a fantastic talent. So was/is Donovan Brazier. So was Steve Ovett.

Spot on. I mean, a dominant 1:44.14 win in an international meet is great stuff at any age. Don't we ultimately all just want to see some good races? Brazier v Amos v Korir v Giles v Saruni v Murphy v Vasquez v Rowden v Burgin v.....whoever. Let's go.

Coevett wrote:

shill wrote:

No, he’s equivalent to a college sophomore. Brazier turned 19 in April. Ran 1:43.5 in June.

Burgin turns 19 tomorrow. Runs 1:43.5 possibly never.

This was his first race of the season, and only his 9th track race in the last 3 years. Brazier had over 10 races in the outdoor season before he ran that time, and hadn't broken 1:45 and only once broken 1:46. He then choked in the Olympic trials, not getting out of his heats, and didn't get near his 1:43.5 again for another 3 years. Max today was in the outside lane and nobody to push him in cool conditions and virtually no spectators. Not to mention all the covid disruptions etc. His progress has been steady for years despite some injury problems. Not sure how you can say Brazier was a greater talent at the same age.

Let’s ignore Brazier’s track exploits in HS.

As a HS senior, Brazier ran a 15:25 xc race finishing only 30 seconds behind Grant Fisher, who went on to win footlocker. He finished 6th at the Michigan state meet.

If you look at the results, he beat dudes who ran 9:10 for 3200 that track season.

All of this while only running 25 miles per week and never running more than 6 miles in a single run and not even liking to run cross country.

Like, if he focused on the 5k he probably would’ve been a footlocker finalist.

Then fast forward to the outdoor season... this same dude who was a natural aerobic monster runs 45.9r.