SDSU Aztec wrote:
In most states minors can get a tattoo with parental permission. My 16-year old daughter says she wants to get one but it won't happen during my watch.
Parents wanting to have this hormone treatments and surgeries proves that the kids come from severely dysfunctional situations and need a village to protect them.
patient autonomy wrote:
too many beta males wrote:
If a doctor cuts off a child's genitals, that doctor should go to jail. Not just be banned from practicing, but go to prison for a long time.
Patient autonomy. The doctor's job is to explain the risks and benefits of the procedure. If the patient takes that information and makes a choice that they regret, that's on them.
Part of freedom is the freedom to make bad choices. I've done things I regret. Doesn't mean I think the government should substitute their judgment for my own.
It's the physician's fiduciary duty to do what's in the patient's best medical interest, not be a "yes man" who does whatever the patient wants. Providing genital mutilation surgery to people with severe psychological problems is like Conrad Murray giving Michael Jackson propofol.
FutureOldHead wrote:
Minors arent allowed to get transition surgery (in the US). Most doctors don't even reccomend hormone transition initially. Just say that youre talking about something you have no information on and keep it moving
This is not true. In the US, female minors are having the most common "transition surgery" - double mastectomies - in droves. HCPs are handing out Rxes for androgen blockers & cross sex hormones like candy.
You come off as very uninformed about this.
too many beta males wrote:
patient autonomy wrote:
Patient autonomy. The doctor's job is to explain the risks and benefits of the procedure. If the patient takes that information and makes a choice that they regret, that's on them.
Part of freedom is the freedom to make bad choices. I've done things I regret. Doesn't mean I think the government should substitute their judgment for my own.
It's the physician's fiduciary duty to do what's in the patient's best medical interest, not be a "yes man" who does whatever the patient wants. Providing genital mutilation surgery to people with severe psychological problems is like Conrad Murray giving Michael Jackson propofol.
If a patient who has been fully informed of the benefits and risks of an operation concludes that the procedure is in their own best interest, who am I to tell them that they are wrong? Whether the quality of life improvement brought by this particular surgery exceeds the risk is something that the only the patient can decide.
Sure, there are times that a surgeon needs to say no to what the patient is asking for. I'm not doing an elective procedure on a Child class C patient with an ejection fraction of 15% because they will die on the table. But "they may regret this later" isn't a good enough reason for all physicians everywhere to deny a patient a procedure. In this case, it's you job to make sure that the patient has all the information necessary to make their own informed decision.
And there certainly isn't grounds for the government to step in and substitute their own judgement for that of both the patient and the physician.
patient autonomy wrote:
If a patient who has been fully informed of the benefits and risks of an operation concludes that the procedure is in their own best interest, who am I to tell them that they are wrong?.
The issue at hand here is at what age a person should be allowed to make those decisions (e.g. “consent” to a major irreversible elective operation) and if any adult should be allowed to give consent on their behalf if they are deemed unable to give proper consent themselves due to immaturity.
Statistician, Amateur wrote:
stanky legs wrote:
Swing and a miss. This is not wisdom teeth. 90% of these children grow out of these 'feelings. '
Do 90% of people who undergo such treatment regret it?
If not, what is the percent regret?
How many "go back" to their birth gender prior to surgical procedures?
I don't know part as I haven't seen any literature on it. I guess they could convert back if they really wanted.
stanky legs wrote:
Statistician, Amateur wrote:
Do 90% of people who undergo such treatment regret it?
If not, what is the percent regret?
How many "go back" to their birth gender prior to surgical procedures?
I don't know part as I haven't seen any literature on it. I guess they could convert back if they really wanted.
So basically you just made stuff up and expect people to believe it ?
FWIW I am Ok for teens to get tattoos after months of counselling. Personally I think a 72 hour waiting period for everyone would be a good idea.🤣
ddidididid wrote:
stanky legs wrote:
I don't know part as I haven't seen any literature on it. I guess they could convert back if they really wanted.
So basically you just made stuff up and expect people to believe it ?
FWIW I am Ok for teens to get tattoos after months of counselling. Personally I think a 72 hour waiting period for everyone would be a good idea.🤣
I said 90% grow out of it(without any treatment of any kind). I also said that I don't know if the 90% who under go treatment regret it or not. Go play somewhere else bro.
RunRagged wrote:
Skeptics of the new orthodoxy, such as the Society for Evidence Based Gender Medicine, point out that that between 61 and 98% of children treated with psychological counseling for gender dysphoria eventually become reconciled to their natal sex. But among children treated with puberty blockers, only between 2 and 4% become comfortable with their sex, meaning the overwhelming majority move on to cross-hormone treatment and surgery.
Doesn't this just mean the correct decisions are being made? The two groups are not randomly assigned - doctors have looked at it on a case-by-case basis and decided the best treatment for each of their patients. For some that will be cross-sex hormones and will go on to live as the opposite gender and the people with other things going on receive therapy.
This also does not make sense (also doesn't make cents): The Army won't pay to have a tattoo removed, but it will pay for your gun or bazookas to be removed.
stanky legs wrote:
I said 90% grow out of it(without any treatment of any kind). I also said that I don't know if the 90% who under go treatment regret it or not. Go play somewhere else bro.
Cool. So you will post the study where 90% of the people outgrow it right? After all since you aren't just making stuff up, you can point to a source that can be evaluated.
patient autonomy wrote:
too many beta males wrote:
If a doctor cuts off a child's genitals, that doctor should go to jail. Not just be banned from practicing, but go to prison for a long time.
Patient autonomy. The doctor's job is to explain the risks and benefits of the procedure. If the patient takes that information and makes a choice that they regret, that's on them.
Part of freedom is the freedom to make bad choices. I've done things I regret. Doesn't mean I think the government should substitute their judgment for my own.
You wonder when/if this debate will illuminate the clear ethical/moral/professional and should be legal problems, associated with circumcision.
i feel like i live in an alternative, warped reality lately.
Why is it that we say that a person's sex is whatever they believe it is, but we don't apply that standard to any other categories?
A white person can't suddenly identify as black. I can't suddenly decide I identify as an elephant.
And what's weird is biological sex is a lot MORE real than race. Race is far more socially constructed than sex.
I probably would have transitioned to a boy if someone had given me the option at 8. thank god no such option existed.
Well, female genital multilation and circumsion is a problem, I doubt they should be allowed to consent to these practices, whether adult or children.
am i crazy or is the world wrote:
i feel like i live in an alternative, warped reality lately.
Why is it that we say that a person's sex is whatever they believe it is, but we don't apply that standard to any other categories?
A white person can't suddenly identify as black. I can't suddenly decide I identify as an elephant.
And what's weird is biological sex is a lot MORE real than race. Race is far more socially constructed than sex.
I probably would have transitioned to a boy if someone had given me the option at 8. thank god no such option existed.
If you were 8 today, you wouldn't have an "option" to transition and no one would give it to you. Would you have been able to convince your parents and mental health professionals? Do you still want to be a guy? Few parents want to have their children transition and it would take a lot more than my 8-year exercising her "option" to convince me her desire to be a boy was legitimate. You no longer wanting to be a guy means that you wouldn't have been taken seriously if you had said you wanted to be a guy at age 8. Most parents and doctors are not idiots.