OP - You are an idiot.
Please don't spread this bs around. Some people might believe it. Those people will be injured, burned out and will eventually hate running.
What you say is true, for about 1% of runners. The rest of them are not efficient enough to truly reap the benefits of running that speed all of the time, and must slow down.
Another stupid thread.
cramister wrote:
If I’m wrong sham runs in the south from what I remember
That would usually mean a lot flatter terrain
Some guys will be running over more hills, that can be 15-30 sec per mile
The area I live in is actually pretty hilly. But it doesn't really matter. The point is to improve your easy pace until you can't anymore, bump up the mileage, and then repeat the process.
Always Building wrote:
OP - You are an idiot.
Really? Look, maybe I'm wrong. But my teammates are doing pretty good with this training (one in the 15s, three in the 16s, two in the 17s, one in the 18s) and we're only a school of 800. By contrast, I know a guy who ran easy days at 8 minute pace and does high mileage, but he's still slow and can't even break 5.
It's perplexing to me that people are supposedly sucsexful by doing 8 minute miles because that is a pace 90% of athletes can do with ease. There must be millions of high school athletes who run 8 pace on easy days, but why aren't they all Hobbs Kessler? It takes skill to run at 7:00 or under. Prefontaine supposedly did no mileage over 6:40 pace. 8:00 is something everyone can do.
Your sample size is pretty small there bud. Once again your age is showing.
Sham 69 wrote:
Always Building wrote:
OP - You are an idiot.
Really? Look, maybe I'm wrong. But my teammates are doing pretty good with this training (one in the 15s, three in the 16s, two in the 17s, one in the 18s) and we're only a school of 800. By contrast, I know a guy who ran easy days at 8 minute pace and does high mileage, but he's still slow and can't even break 5.
Compared to what? There are elite women that run faster than your top dudes at your high school and they run slower on their easy days.
Sham 69 wrote:
It's perplexing to me that people are supposedly sucsexful by doing 8 minute miles because that is a pace 90% of athletes can do with ease. There must be millions of high school athletes who run 8 pace on easy days, but why aren't they all Hobbs Kessler? It takes skill to run at 7:00 or under. Prefontaine supposedly did no mileage over 6:40 pace. 8:00 is something everyone can do.
Pre got beat by a Finnish runner who did a lot of volume at a slow pace. As to why we don't have more Hobbs Kessler. One is genetics and the other is most high schoolers don't train as intelligently as he does. I.e. see high schoolers run what should be their tempo pace as their easy pace all the time. Not many high schoolers actually take their easy days truly easy from what I've seen and fall into a medium intensity trap. Where it isn't actually fast enough to be a workout nor slow enough to get the benefits from a easy run.
Have you ever read a book about training, or do all of your proclamations come from the assumption that you couldn't have three guys on your team under 17:00 if you hadn't stumbled upon the world best training philosophy?
Sham 69 wrote:
cramister wrote:
If I’m wrong sham runs in the south from what I remember
That would usually mean a lot flatter terrain
Some guys will be running over more hills, that can be 15-30 sec per mile
The area I live in is actually pretty hilly. But it doesn't really matter. The point is to improve your easy pace until you can't anymore, bump up the mileage, and then repeat the process.
Learn how to train. Every new post brings your unabated cluelessness to new levels.
[quote]Sham 69 wrote:
Under 7 minute pace is the golden pace at which one can improve. 8 minute pace is way too slow and does not require the mechanics needed to run a 4:30 mile. Therefore, you develop bad running form habits at 8 minute pace (which translate into a slower mile time)! Not only that, but there are no practical gains to be had by running that slow. If you can't run under 8 minute pace, you should either hit the track to gain basic endurance (building up the distance from a shorter one to a longer one) or take the whole day off.
You can not be a champion if you run the majority of your miles at 8 minute pace. You can only be an average runner. To be great, you first have to make sure that you're able to run somewhere in the 7 minute pace range for up to 5 miles. Then, you drop your easy pace down to 6:30. If you don't believe me, there are many Wesfly or TheAthleteSpecial episodes where they describe sub 7 as "easy".
Once your easy pace is 6:30, you can advance to increasing mileage up to 10 instead of 5. But in doing this, your pace will decrease to the 7s again. That is okay, but you must start the process again of improving your easy pace down to 6:30.
The only way this strategy works is if you supplement with weekly repeats. Like 400 or 800s, for example. That is a main component, because those repeats give you the "muscle memory" needed to run fast. If you have ever jogged the day after doing these, you would know what I am talking about. You don't even have to think about running with the "correct" form, because it just comes naturally.
Weight lifting also helps neuromuscular coordination along with the sheer POWER needed to run fast. Ever watch the sprinters at meets? The best ones have very lean muscle, and distance runners need the same to some degree.
By training yourself to run a faster easy pace, you give yourself the ability to train your threshold with higher frequency. Your threshold is the most important tool required to run fast.[/quo. I just run how l feel. I never use a watch on an easy runs and dont understand people that do. I just run off how l feel. You aren't going to get faster if your easy long run was 30 seconds faster per mile faster today, but you will get hurt.
I don't like to pile on, but the enthusiasm behind this post is high. But bad ideas with good enthusiasm doesn't make a bad idea good.
Your teammates are running 15-18-minute 5Ks.
That's not really anything to get excited about. Today a woman run 14:43. She would have lapped all but maybe one of your teammates.
Do yourself a favour and research the East African training, other top people from around the world and some history, like Arthur Lydiard training or the Japanese distance runners. They even hike with backpacks up mountains.
Some great nordic runners run in the snow and nordic ski for hours. Their pace isn't going to matter, but their "effort" will.
Son, you should flip your thinking towards time-based volume and effort-based sessions.
I am not fast at all. As a master, I would heave beaten your slowest guy that's about it, but I have run with a few 2:09-2:13 marathon runners and a sub-13-minute 5K guy and quite a few Kenyans. When they run easy, they run easy. In fact in some cases slower than your 8-minute pace.
Your teammates would be eaten alive by these people.
Sham 69 wrote:
Under 7 minute pace is the golden pace at which one can improve. 8 minute pace is way too slow and does not require the mechanics needed to run a 4:30 mile. Therefore, you develop bad running form habits at 8 minute pace (which translate into a slower mile time)! Not only that, but there are no practical gains to be had by running that slow. If you can't run under 8 minute pace, you should either hit the track to gain basic endurance (building up the distance from a shorter one to a longer one) or take the whole day off.
You can not be a champion if you run the majority of your miles at 8 minute pace. You can only be an average runner. To be great, you first have to make sure that you're able to run somewhere in the 7 minute pace range for up to 5 miles. Then, you drop your easy pace down to 6:30. If you don't believe me, there are many Wesfly or TheAthleteSpecial episodes where they describe sub 7 as "easy".
Once your easy pace is 6:30, you can advance to increasing mileage up to 10 instead of 5. But in doing this, your pace will decrease to the 7s again. That is okay, but you must start the process again of improving your easy pace down to 6:30.
The only way this strategy works is if you supplement with weekly repeats. Like 400 or 800s, for example. That is a main component, because those repeats give you the "muscle memory" needed to run fast. If you have ever jogged the day after doing these, you would know what I am talking about. You don't even have to think about running with the "correct" form, because it just comes naturally.
Weight lifting also helps neuromuscular coordination along with the sheer POWER needed to run fast. Ever watch the sprinters at meets? The best ones have very lean muscle, and distance runners need the same to some degree.
By training yourself to run a faster easy pace, you give yourself the ability to train your threshold with higher frequency. Your threshold is the most important tool required to run fast.
Rubbish.
Sham 69 wrote:
It's perplexing to me that people are supposedly sucsexful by doing 8 minute miles because that is a pace 90% of athletes can do with ease. There must be millions of high school athletes who run 8 pace on easy days, but why aren't they all Hobbs Kessler? It takes skill to run at 7:00 or under. Prefontaine supposedly did no mileage over 6:40 pace. 8:00 is something everyone can do.
They are successful because they run easy enough (a feeling, better to be on the slow side) between hard sessions, to do the hard sessions really well, and the body adapts and improves during the next easy run. Learn from Nick Willis training mentioned above.
Brad Schalpak won a national cross country championship and almost never went faster than 8:00 pace. I believe most of his hard running was repeats on a really steep hill. Henry Rono did his distance runs at something in the 8:00 range. Yes, he also did some really fast stuff at times too but most of his miles were probably no faster than 8:00. You can be a champion running most of your miles at 8:00 pace. You probably won't but you probably won't become a champion running the miles a lot faster either.
You’re training philosophies are going to take the running world by storm, Sham
Sham 69 wrote:
Under 7 minute pace is the golden pace at which one can improve. 8 minute pace is way too slow and does not require the mechanics needed to run a 4:30 mile. Therefore, you develop bad running form habits at 8 minute pace (which translate into a slower mile time)! Not only that, but there are no practical gains to be had by running that slow. If you can't run under 8 minute pace, you should either hit the track to gain basic endurance (building up the distance from a shorter one to a longer one) or take the whole day off.
You can not be a champion if you run the majority of your miles at 8 minute pace. You can only be an average runner. To be great, you first have to make sure that you're able to run somewhere in the 7 minute pace range for up to 5 miles. Then, you drop your easy pace down to 6:30. If you don't believe me, there are many Wesfly or TheAthleteSpecial episodes where they describe sub 7 as "easy".
Once your easy pace is 6:30, you can advance to increasing mileage up to 10 instead of 5. But in doing this, your pace will decrease to the 7s again. That is okay, but you must start the process again of improving your easy pace down to 6:30.
The only way this strategy works is if you supplement with weekly repeats. Like 400 or 800s, for example. That is a main component, because those repeats give you the "muscle memory" needed to run fast. If you have ever jogged the day after doing these, you would know what I am talking about. You don't even have to think about running with the "correct" form, because it just comes naturally.
Weight lifting also helps neuromuscular coordination along with the sheer POWER needed to run fast. Ever watch the sprinters at meets? The best ones have very lean muscle, and distance runners need the same to some degree.
By training yourself to run a faster easy pace, you give yourself the ability to train your threshold with higher frequency. Your threshold is the most important tool required to run fast.
Many people do not understand that running at 06: 30 is not a reason to run faster, but a consequence of the fact that you can run fast. The main thing in light days is not pace, but duration (time, volume).
bbbbbb wrote:
No.
Letsrun needs a like button.
Unless your in college running sub 7 every day is a great way to get in a training hole and burn out for whatever event your training for
Sham 69 wrote:
Always Building wrote:
OP - You are an idiot.
Really? Look, maybe I'm wrong. But my teammates are doing pretty good with this training (one in the 15s, three in the 16s, two in the 17s, one in the 18s) and we're only a school of 800. By contrast, I know a guy who ran easy days at 8 minute pace and does high mileage, but he's still slow and can't even break 5.
Your first post leaned heavily towards running fast and never slow, I think this caused everyone to swing to the opposite end of the spectrum. Them advocating for never running easy days faster than 8:00 pace is straight up wrong. Period. If you're easy running that slow do cross training instead because that is garbage, sorry. Emphasizing slow running makes you slow. Lay off the hate, it's making you sound stupid. Keep in mind he is running 800 - 5k, not marathons. He's needs more volume running faster, not 70+ mile weeks ran slowly and 12-16 mile slow long runs.
The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. Running too much volume too slow will get you just as injured as too fast. In my opinion, you're on the right path but the occasional 7:30 - 8:30 day wouldn't hurt.
Hejendo76 wrote:
In regards to your title, a friend of mine runs 75-85 miles a week all at 8:30 pace.
What is his PBs?