Super Spikes and a massive advantage: Misinformation or truth?

Bumping this

The NCAA shot put record was broken too this year by a guy I've never heard of. Do the new shoes help with throws too?

NCAA shot put record wrote:

The NCAA shot put record was broken too this year by a guy I've never heard of. Do the new shoes help with throws too?

I know nothing about throwing but I would say that they probably give a 10-20 foot advantage.

running2begood wrote:

Effects of super spikes are not that big at all. they may help a little little bit but that’s all. i don’t get why people can’t except that we’re in a golden age of running right now and it’s not because of the spikes.

You sound like one of those baseball guys who came up for a fale reason as to why everyone was suddently hitting 50 to 70 homers a year.

A little bit is EVERYTHING in our sport. 2-3 seconds for a pro in a mile is small enough for people like you to ignore but in reality it's determined virtually the entire race.

Do you know what the differecent between 3rd and 8th was at World in 2019 was? 1.35 seconds.

3 Marcin Lewandowski Poland (POL) 3:31.46 NR

4 Jakob Ingebrigtsen Norway (NOR) 3:31.70

5 Jake Wightman Great Britain & N.I. (GBR) 3:31.87 PB

6 Josh Kerr Great Britain & N.I. (GBR) 3:32.52 PB

7 Ronald Kwemoi Kenya (KEN) 3:32.72 SB

8 Matthew Centrowitz Jr. United States (USA) 3:32.81

For the women, Laura Muir is viewed as someone who can never medal. Give her 1.6 seconds and she'd be a silver medallist.

2nd place, silver medalist(s) Faith Kipyegon Kenya (KEN) 3:54.22 NR

3rd place, bronze medalist(s) Gudaf Tsegay Ethiopia (ETH) 3:54.38 PB

4 Shelby Houlihan United States (USA) 3:54.99 AR

5 Laura Muir Great Britain & N.I. (GBR) 3:55.76 SB

1-2% is the difference between finishing mid to back of the pack and medalling.

But it's also small enoguh that people like you can claim it's something else like Covid-19. Nope. It's the shoes.

Rojo:

I feel like your analysis is a bit flawed. If you look at the TFFRS list this year other then the top ranked times, I really don’t see that much of a difference. View anyone’s profile that’s broken 4 and it’s obvious that they were going to do it one way or the other. I don’t see these spikes making a 4:10 miler a 3:59 miler.

Also, in one of your articles, you mentioned the 1500 meter woman’s world record. That was set in adidas spikes that have been out for awhile.

What about Donovan Braziers 800 miles indoor record? Set in old Nike Sprinting spikes

The guy who lost to Giles also broke Seb Coes indoor record, and he was in adidas spikes that again, haven’t changed.

Look at any TFFRS race result this year and look at the distance events. Other then the outliers of Oregon, and the D2 kid that ran like 13:30, you won’t see anything outrageous as far as improvement wise.

I do not think the spikes make as much or even close to a difference as the Vaporflys did for the roads.

If these spikes were so crazy, I think you’d see crazy improvements over non elite runners as well, and I’m not seeing that. I challenge you Rojo to go on TFFRS and do your own research.

Hey Rojo - belatedly saw this.

Worth noting that in the races you pointed out there, Jakob Ingerbritsen, Matt Centrowitz (possibly Kwemoi, not sure), as well as Faith Kipyegon and Laura Muir were already wearing the Dragonflies at Doha.

By the 1-2 seconds per 600 crowd (claimed advantage of the DFs): knock a couple of seconds off of Faith and Laura, and you get Faith in the 3:55-3:57 range, and Laura in the 3:57-3:59 range. Prior to the race, both Faith and Laura had run 3:55 before in less kind conditions than the ones they found themselves in Doha 2019. Laura's PR was from a solo effort for the last 700 in Paris 2015 - a lot harder than the speed train Hassan set up in Doha.

You seriously suggesting that 2019 Gudaf was 2-4 seconds better than Faith Kipyegon, and 4-6 seconds better than Laura Muir, despite both athletes having winning records vs Gudaf for their career (ignoring 2021 3:53i Tseguy).

Not saying the spikes do nothing, but the blanket claims of improvement might need to be tempered down somewhat and also given a bunch of caveats.

I am bumping this thread as no one has stated yet what technology makes the Dragonfly spikes comparable to the advantages seen with the Vaporflys and other plated road race shoes. They do not have a carbon plate. Yes they have pebax foam, but does foam really make that much difference? Personally when I run in Reeboks, Nike Invincible and other pebax road shoes without a plate, I don’t feel any faster than in my EVA shoes without a plate

running 6min miles like david45 wrote:

It's the shoes, but not the spikes.

Better shoes mean more training miles with less strain, resulting in better race times. That's why the Nike Revolution 4 is the shoe all the pros are using.

Maybe true but misses the point. The VFs etc. are just faster shoes period. YMMV, but for me, I'd say they're in the 10 s / mile faster range. And to this I say, great! It's not cheating, it's normal progress and a significant breakthrough in energy conservation. I haven't run in the DFs but wouldn't be surprised if they could be responsible for something similar: 5-10 s / mile.

What makes it clear for me is that NCAA times 1500 and up have improved a lot from previous years, meanwhile times for 800m and below are basically the same