Ritzenhein most underrated coach in the world?

2016ish wrote:

OG Coconino Cowboy wrote:

Aside from Stinson, name one athlete that has gotten injured under Ritz? The group have all had an excellent start to their career.

He tried his hand at coaching a bunch of sub-elites a few years back and most of them ended up injured. The vibe I got was he knew exactly what it takes to get to the top, but hadn't fully grasped the level of talent disparity between elite level runners and the weekend warriors.

Funny, I heard the exact opposite. Everyone who has fully committed has improved, with a couple injuries which are common in an elite training group. Bowerman has an equal percentage of injuries, because these elite group ride the fine line between training to be the best in the world and staying healthy. Believe it or not it takes a lot of risks to get to that level. If you aren't recovering right and out partying/cheating on your wife then you probably aren't going to last long.

Who has he coached from sub-elite up to solid elite level that none of us would have heard of before? Like a Lydiard or a Squires or, that's right, a Wetmore. If he'd coached SJD to the OT, I'd be more inclined to agree. As it stands, with all available evidence, Ritz is exactly appropriately rated as a coach.

WinnytheBish wrote:

2016ish wrote:

He tried his hand at coaching a bunch of sub-elites a few years back and most of them ended up injured. The vibe I got was he knew exactly what it takes to get to the top, but hadn't fully grasped the level of talent disparity between elite level runners and the weekend warriors.

Funny, I heard the exact opposite. Everyone who has fully committed has improved, with a couple injuries which are common in an elite training group. Bowerman has an equal percentage of injuries, because these elite group ride the fine line between training to be the best in the world and staying healthy. Believe it or not it takes a lot of risks to get to that level. If you aren't recovering right and out partying/cheating on your wife then you probably aren't going to last long.

He did get solid results out of some of his runners...Injury rate probably wasn't higher than normal if we look at it objectively. I'm inclined to agree with Ghost of Jason...the guy is neither over or under rated.

Nope, all wrong. Tinman is the most underrated coach.

See for yourselves using Sam Parsons as an example:

1994 - can't even walk 5 meters

2020 - runs 3:57

It is way way way to early.

His athletes havent got the chance to race any championship races. That really will be the only way to know.

The person who has been with him the longest is Leah Falland (O'connor) and she was in the hurt locker for a long time before she came to his training. It appears that he has really helped her out.

She's back training strong and racing right at her PR's--which are fast.

A lot of the people mentioned are coming off base work of their college coaches which can last for a long time, so it's hard to tell whose coaching impact is whose..

But he really worked with Leah from the ground up.

Also, I'm not a super fan of Ritz, but at least look to accurate data points.

biggest question wrote:

The person who has been with him the longest is Leah Falland (O'connor) and she was in the hurt locker for a long time before she came to his training. It appears that he has really helped her out.

She's back training strong and racing right at her PR's--which are fast.

Was just going to bring her up. It will be really interesting to see what leah falland/O’Connor runs this spring. Don’t forget her first year as a pro in 2016 she opened up with a 9:17 and was one of the favorites to make the team, but then got injured right before/in the first round of the trials and bombed the final and has pretty much been hurt ever since. Her junior year she beat quigly and frerichs for the steeple NCAA title. And her senior year she beat Shelby and quigly indoors to win the indoor mile at NCAA’s. She’s no joke and if she’s at the top of her game the US women’s steeple top 3 might not be as much of a given as it has been in recent years

Villarreal in the pool and on the bike ? Sounds injured plus he dropped out of his last 2 races ? Per Strava

How about he coach some peeps with average to above talent and see how good of a coach he is! i mean come on!

Is Stinson is the only athlete he's coached for more than 6 months or so?

Trackfan55 wrote:

To play devils advocate, another way of looking at it is “Three of the best runners in the NCAA improve after going pro”. Also aren’t all those old PRs like 2 years old because of covid?

I’ll hold my judgment positively or negative until we see how Ritz does with the rest of the group. Carlos Villarreal has really struggled IMO

Geordie Beamish has been on and off the shelf as well

Pert wrote:

It's not the coach, it's the shoes.

We are seeing so many fast times in the present and we will see 5 high schoolers each year break 4 minutes in the mile. Legit track is dead

I do not understand this post at all. Track is dead? Because people are collectively getting faster and the controversy of shoes is giving the sport more outside attention? What does it matter that the times are different now, or why they are different? The competitions are still happening, and older performances haven't been invalidated. The times are getting a little faster collectively, that's the whole thing.

I don't mean to derail the thread, but I see this perspective everywhere on this site, and it frustrates me a little. Track is far from dead, and a few seconds faster no matter the reason won't change that.

quote post wrote:

Meanwhile Parker Stinson has made zero progress

Parker is too busy cheating on his wife