Speed vs. Endurance: All of History’s Fastest Men in Order, Including Your Precious Donny Braz

Great thread idea.

I think Jakob is a 3k-5k guy ultimately. He is still getting strong enough at his young age to produce performances equivalent to his 1,500 at longer events. He has already run 7:27. He also nearly won a medal at Doha 2019 in the 5k, which indicates around 12:50. And you have to imagine he improved into 2020, given that he dropped his 1,500 and 3k time significantly. If he keeps improving the next few years, he may be capable of a better relative performance in the 5k than the 15. Let's see how he does in Tokyo.

I should have been more precise—I think AerobicMonster is likely right that 500m would have been his ideal distance, not so much that 44.26 is quite a lot better than 1:43.4 (I think it’s a fractionally stronger mark). I say this because the physiological midpoint between the 400 and 800 races is probably nearer to 500 than 600. 500 is the distance where I can imagine him remaining in the top 10-20 fastest all-time, all these years later, with something like a 58.00.

He’s actually the 27th fastest non-African born athlete for the 800, and the 35th fastest non-African born athlete for 400m. Much more relevantly, he’s #45 at 400 and #72 at 800 when everybody’s included. World Athletics scoring tables put his 400 at 1232 and his 800 at 1223, which might be within the margin of error.

I don’t think we have much to argue about here, honestly. I’m happy to believe that Juantorena was capable of 1:42.x in ‘76-‘77 under hypothetical perfect circumstances, that he would run faster at both distances if competing today, and that he was just as gifted at 800m as at 400m. I still contend that the smart bet for his ideal distance rounds down to 500m.

Great idea JWH!

I liked some of the opinions posters put forward. Cherono/Shaheen's mention caught my eye particularly. The steeple is within the range you're looking at. Is it just too much of a specialty without enough overlapping athletes in 1500/5k/3k flat? If you had asked me and neither of us had looked, I'd have guessed Shaheen was in the top-10 all time in 3k and it wouldn't have surprised me if he was at 5k too.

Maybe that's just how the steeple is: since Henry Rono, it seems uncommon for the best to also be among the best at similar flat events. If anything, that would suggest steeple times/records are softer than other events favoring similar physiology. Now, that may or may not be true, but it is worth proposing.

For example, it's hard to suggest a 5k record (World, National, your school, whatever) is going to be soft since its so frequently run by so many. It was Jager's main event prior to his discovery of hurdling, wouldn't you say - more so than 1500 or mile? And yet, he isn't on the US short list at the various surrounding events, is he? Any given year or weekend an army of runners worldwide it seems are trying to run a fast 1500 or 5k. The steeple a little less so. So, is Shaheen deservedly not on the all-time short list at flat events (as opposed to just not finding himself in the right race, with the right weather, etc.)? Was he physiologically simply not in the same league as Komen, El G, or KB?

Anyway, great thread that has remained positive!

Makes sense with Barega, you convinced me 6 or 6.5k is appropriate.

I enjoyed your all-time 4000 meter thread, perhaps I'll make hypothetical Tokyo 2021 3000m thread.

That would be an incredible clash

Shaheen was one of the all time greats no doubt. Shaheen notably defeated El G at 5000m when Shaheen ran 12:48. As JWH noted, Shaheen certainly seemed capable of running 7:25ish also. Shaheen finished 4th, 5th and 9th in the short race at World XC and 8th in the long race the day after his 4th in the short race. I imagine Shaheen ran the steeplechase because it was his best chance to win Gold but he could have likely medaled at 5000m, 10000m and possibly 1500m if he had aimed for it. Shaheen was that good.

Fabulous think piece, thank you!

John Wesley Harding wrote:

-When he broke Morceli’s WR he lowered it by 2.91 seconds,

3.09

thecorrector wrote:

John Wesley Harding wrote:

-When he broke Morceli’s WR he lowered it by 2.91 seconds,

3.09

Thank you, sir or madam. I stand corrected.

Moron#2 wrote:

Shaheen was one of the all time greats no doubt. Shaheen notably defeated El G at 5000m when Shaheen ran 12:48. As JWH noted, Shaheen certainly seemed capable of running 7:25ish also. Shaheen finished 4th, 5th and 9th in the short race at World XC and 8th in the long race the day after his 4th in the short race. I imagine Shaheen ran the steeplechase because it was his best chance to win Gold but he could have likely medaled at 5000m, 10000m and possibly 1500m if he had aimed for it. Shaheen was that good.

I have to agree. I'm thinking he was one of the greats. I don't really subscribe to the school of thought that the steeple is populated by those who couldn't medal in something else, but that has certainly been said. Just thought I'd throw the idea out here and see what anybody thinks.

Personally, however, I tend toward what you're suggesting about his potential PRs and medal chances. That is all off topic for the purposes of this discussion. I just wondered why the event and therefore the guy wasn't included in the OP's report.

As far as this discussion does go, wouldn't you put him slightly toward the endurance end of the spectrum compared to his signature event? Better at 5k than 1500 or mile? Did someone earlier say he might land at around 4k (and that may be rounding down just a little)?

Ummmm....Ever hear of Sir Mo “3:28 Double 5k/10k Oly Gold Hour WR Indoor 2 mi WR”Farah”???

Look at these

Personal best(s)

Outdoor [6]

800 m: 1:48.24 (Lugano 2008)

1500 m: 3:28.81 NR (Monaco 2013)

Mile: 3:56.49 (London 2005)

3000 m: 7:32.62 NR (Birmingham 2016)

2-mile: 8:07.85 ER (Birmingham 2014)

5000 m: 12:53.11 NR (Monaco 2011)

10,000 m: 26:46.57 ER (Eugene 2011)

20,000 m: 56:20.30 NR (Brussels 2020)

Hour run: 21,330 m WR (Brussels 2020)

Indoor [6]

Mile: 3:57.92 (Boston 2012)

3000 m: 7:34.47i NR (Birmingham 2009)

2-mile: 8:03.40i WR (Birmingham 2015)

5000 m: 13:09.16i ER (Birmingham 2017)

Road [6]

10 km: 27:44 NR (London 2010)

Half marathon: 59:07a ER (South Shields 2019)

Marathon: 2:05:11 NR (Chicago 2018)

Pretty notable that his name is missing. At least he was in the top-10 at 1500 for a solid 5 years, I guess...

I’d say his ideal distance was somewhere between 2k & 4k, and I’m leaning strongly toward only 2400m.