sub 1:30 half marathon/sub 3:00 marathon

Oh Please wrote:

Runny McRunnerson wrote:...

Jumping on here for a question. I'm also trying to break 1:30 in the half, with a close-ish recent 5k time trial time (~21:00 5k), but I'm running my easy runs at around 8:30/mi, not slower than 10:00/mi! (See bolded part of quote) Am I running my easy runs too fast?

I think 10/mi is way too slow for a sub 20 5k runner. You need to run at least fast enough that your mechanics don't start to change. I probably wouldn't run slower than 8:30 to be honest.

They run 6:20/mile for 5k and 7:33/mile for 10k! If we extrapolate, 8:30/mile might be their one-hour race pace! I would not recommend running 1-hr race pace for your easy runs.

Hi again. I just started running with a set schedule last April, and have never done a run over 9 miles. And most of my long runs are under 7:55 pace, with no repercussions to my health. My PBs are already listed. Now I'm just wondering how to increase mileage safely so I can hit my goals in the half marathon in July. (FYI I'm 17 years old).

Teen Runner wrote:

Hi again. I just started running with a set schedule last April, and have never done a run over 9 miles. And most of my long runs are under 7:55 pace, with no repercussions to my health. My PBs are already listed. Now I'm just wondering how to increase mileage safely so I can hit my goals in the half marathon in July. (FYI I'm 17 years old).

You need to adjust your goals. Otherwise this is a, "you cannot get there from here scenario."

How long are your long runs?

My long runs usually range from 6-8 miles, at an average of about 7:50 pace. My effort level out of 10 is usually a 5-7 (I can speak sentences at this pace).

You can't call it a long run if it's not over an hour long (especially if your goal race is a half marathon). I think everyone would agree with that. So, it sounds like you don't really do long runs yet. You will be averaging 6+ miles per day when you are training for a half marathon, so obviously your long run can't be 6 miles.

Start there. Add a mile (or 10 minutes) to your long run each week. Work your way up to 90 minute runs. Then work your way up to 2-hour runs. Take a step back week every 4ish weeks or whenever you feel like it.

Teen Runner wrote:

Hi again. I just started running with a set schedule last April, and have never done a run over 9 miles. And most of my long runs are under 7:55 pace, with no repercussions to my health. My PBs are already listed. Now I'm just wondering how to increase mileage safely so I can hit my goals in the half marathon in July. (FYI I'm 17 years old).

You run 9 mile long runs in 7:55 pace, but can only manage 7:33 pace for a 6.2 mile time trial? Something isn't adding up here, unless your 9 mile run is all out and you have trouble walking afterward. I have a hard time believing this 10k time trial was a genuine all-out effort.

3 workouts per week. One long run [can be a bit faster than easy pace, 8min/mile is fine as long as your 10k is really under 42 min, and actually reflects your 5k time of sub 20]. This should be 1 hour - 1.5 hours of running. One track workout for working on running economy, form, and speed, and one tempo run (20 min at a tad slower than 10k race pace). Your other 3 or 4 runs should be run at a pace where you can easily talk to a running partner in complete sentences without pausing to take a breath. Can you converse with a friend running at 7:55 pace. If so then its ok.

You can't get to 45-50 miles per week running all of your runs faster than 8min/mile as 47 min 10k guy. But if you are really a 42 min 10k guy, then this is fast, but at least within reason.

Teen Runner wrote:

My long runs usually range from 6-8 miles, at an average of about 7:50 pace. My effort level out of 10 is usually a 5-7 (I can speak sentences at this pace).

So you can speak sentences at 7:50/mile, but your race pace over the same distance is only 17 seconds per mile faster? Yeah, no way that 47:07 10k was a genuine, evenly paced, all-out effort.

Runny McRunnerson wrote:

Jumping on here for a question. I'm also trying to break 1:30 in the half, with a close-ish recent 5k time trial time (~21:00 5k), but I'm running my easy runs at around 8:30/mi, not slower than 10:00/mi! (See bolded part of quote) Am I running my easy runs too fast?

That easy pace seems fine to me. Many other vectors more important than easy pace. Also you'll need to be closer if not under 20mins to break 90mins imo.

38min 10k time and running 9.40? That can't be fun.

Good advice in general, but common stop putting concrete pace ranges to easy runs. I see people staring at there watch every 30s worrying they are running 7.58 pace when google says they should be doing 8.30. Just run easy, Jog. I really struggle to get how people can't work that out?

MatthewXCountry wrote:

They run 6:20/mile for 5k and 7:33/mile for 10k! If we extrapolate, 8:30/mile might be their one-hour race pace! I would not recommend running 1-hr race pace for your easy runs.

Your extrapolation logic needs some work.

Umm. 6.20 for 5k, then their 1hr pace would be nearer 7 flat if not a fair bit under. Plus what's all this 1hr time on runs for? I ran significantly quicker than the OP in the half doing 30-40 daily easy runs - by feel, midweek interval session and the occasional 90-120min long run at the weekend.

As you get more experience, you'll get faster and those race times will come down as will the spread between your 5K and 10K pace. The half marathon goal will be in reach with some natural improvement plus more mileage and more experience running 7-10 miles at a clip. The marathon goal could take a few years and probably will require a substantial bump in commitment as the marathon is an entirely different animal than the half. I peaked out at sub 1:25 in the half and my marathon PR is a 3:03 on a fast course in Houston. At that time I was probably running 18:30 for 5K and 38 for 10K.

Do you guys have any advice about speed work for a sub 1:30 half marathon (I'm confused about what I'm supposed to be doing, and I'm more speed-based)?