Science: no good reason to wear a mask while running

"Strikingly, only one instance of outdoor transmission — involving two men talking together in the village of Shangqiu, Henan province — was found “among our 7,324 identified cases in China with sufficient descriptions.”

Furthermore, it's not really a valid argumentative strategy to expect someone to prove a negative. The onus of proof really lies in showing that outdoor spread IS happening. Can you prove that it is?

https://www.sfgate.com/science/article/China-study-suggests-outdoor-transmission-of-15229649.php

This is dumb, right? wrote:

Furthermore, it's not really a valid argumentative strategy to expect someone to prove a negative. The onus of proof really lies in showing that outdoor spread IS happening.

1. In this case in particular, the subject of your post was "Science: no good reason to wear a mask while running." You seem to understand "no good reason to wear a mask while running" as meaning "essentially no outdoor spread." So yes, I'd say the onus is on you to establish that that's what science says. If science says "we don't know," then you are wrong.

2. In general, seems pretty clear that the onus of proof depends on the stakes. If we don't know whether or not there's outdoor spread, what we should do depends on how bad it is to wear a mask if there's no outdoor spread vs. how bad it is to not wear a mask if there is outdoor spread.

Science says there is no outdoor spread and science says that it is bad to wear a mask during vigorous exercise.

Krispy once again has the science before the scientists:

To require everyone to have a mask on while exercising (jogging) requires the following assumptions:

1. jogger is infected with China virus

2. jogger is infected with China virus and is shedding virus

3. jogger is infected with China virus and is shedding virus with a high viral load

4. jogger is infected with China virus and is shedding virus with a high viral load and pedestrian is nearby (say, within 6ft)

5. jogger is infected with China virus and is shedding virus with a high viral load and pedestrian is nearby (say, within 6ft) and the environment doesn't lend itself to quick dispersion (not windy; stale, sitting air)

Now let's rewind these assumptions back the other way.

5a. China virus lands on pedestrian

4a. China virus lands on pedestrian with high viral load

3a. China virus lands on pedestrian with high viral load in an inflatable location (eyes, mouth)

2a. China virus lands on pedestrian with high viral load in an inflatable location (eyes, mouth) and the person is in weaken health/compromised immunology

1a. China virus lands on pedestrian with high viral load in an inflatable location (eyes, mouth) and the person is in weaken health/compromised immunology and has no/limited access to healthcare

Even if you were to apply high percentages to each step, you'll still end with a minuscule probability of transmission that will not justify everyone having a mask on while outside.

Here's the scenario the pro-mask, hypochondriacs think happens: Visually-sickened jogger covered in China virus, hacking up a lung on a 3ft sidewalk in a low-air movement area, shoots a snot rocket that hits stage-4 cancer grandmother in the eye.

Reality: Jogger is probably not infected (and if they are, they aren't expelling high viral load biology), they see someone and jog to the side of a wide sidewalk (or hop off the trail/sidewalk), the wind is blow (high circulation) and they pass by a pedestrian who is in good-enough shape/health to be outside walking and no viral load is transmitted and if it is, the pedestrian has enough immunology to prevent catastrophic health issues.

Change my mind.

-Krispy

Here's my take:

1) To catch COVID-19 from an infected person, you need to breathe in enough of their droplets or "aerosolized particles" or what have you to reach a certain "viral load"; i.e. just breathing in a few viral particles, or a tiny load, isn't enough to infect anybody.

2) The virus seems to spread much more easily indoors due to lack of air movement and ventilation. Even little things done to increase air movement, like keeping a window or door open, are thought to significantly reduce the risk of infection.

3) A good way to understand the "viral load" required to infect a person is, if you were sitting within 6 feet of an infected person for 15 minutes indoors, there's about a 1 in 10 chance you'd receive enough viral particles to get infected yourself.

4) Given these parameters, it's difficult to see how a person could get infected in a situation where one runner passes by another runner (or walker, cyclist, etc) outdoors. People training together in a group seems like a more plausibly infectious scenario, since they would be sharing some of the same air and in close proximity to each other, but just passing by the occasional other person on a run does not seem like a plausible way to get infected.

So what I'm getting at is, the situation I often see on my runs whereby joggers will momentarily mask up when you pass within 10 feet of them, seems ludicrously unnecessary.

The difficult part is dealing with the "ah, but it MIGHT be enough for an infection - you never know". I suppose that's true to some degree, but then, everything in life involves at least some tiny risk. For example, when I decide to drive to the local 7/11 to get a couple of slices of pizza, somebody might point out that I unnecessarily risked the lives of myself and others by operating a motor vehicle when I could have walked or just stayed at home. And they're right, in that the chances of me being involved in a fatal driving accident definitely increased from zero to something (1 in a 10 million or whatever) when I chose to drive. I really did take the risk of killing somebody's toddler, all because I wanted the convenience of driving for some pre-cooked pizza.

But at some point, we all are okay with making the decision to unnecessarily risk the lives of ourselves or others, if the risks are judged to be low enough.

more science wrote:

Also science: no good reason NOT to wear a mask when running.

Also science: no good reason NOT to wear a hydration belt when running.

more science wrote:

Also science: no good reason NOT to wear a mask when running.

You ever done it? Lots of good reasons. Tougher to breath. Blocks the view of the ground right below you. If you wear glasses they get steamed up.

big HONKING birds wrote:

more science wrote:

Also science: no good reason NOT to wear a mask when running.

Also science: no good reason NOT to wear a hydration belt when running.

I believe: fashion is real. So no hydration belt.

more science wrote:

Also science: no good reason NOT to wear a mask when running.

Not true at all.Just because a study does not exist proving the obvious does not mean it is a good idea. If you wear a mask correctly you be putting a constant stress on your lungs if you are overexerting yourself and breathing hard. This will most certainly do damage to lung tissue. If you really over do it you risk collapsing a lung. Lungs are not built to withstand the strain of constant oscillation btw positive and vacuum pressures. This is exactly why the CDC does not recommend wearing masks during heavy exercise; it is common sense and does not even require a study to prove it at this point. Don't wear a mask when running; it is completely stupid. Wear a mask when you are hanging out in close quarters with a lot of people; that does make some sense right now, although the effectiveness there can even be debated.

I don't think so. Runners put extra stress on their lungs all the time. One, when they do sprints, or hill repeats, or fatrlek.

but do whatever you want, but do follow the recommendation that is: if you cannot maintain good social distance while exercising, you should most definitely wear a mask. I think that point is critical.

Covid should be great for runners then. I would love to stress my lungs for a few weeks to strengthen them. Thank you for enlightening me.

seattle prattle wrote:: if you cannot maintain good social distance while exercising, you should most definitely wear a mask. I think that point is critical.

Prove this is necessary via science and data. Prove that running past a person on the sidewalk is a legitimate transmission risk.

this is dumb, right wrote:

seattle prattle wrote:: if you cannot maintain good social distance while exercising, you should most definitely wear a mask. I think that point is critical.

Prove this is necessary via science and data. Prove that running past a person on the sidewalk is a legitimate transmission risk.

Listen to yourself, nimrod.

Go read the CDC guidelines and it says as much.

seattle prattle wrote:

this is dumb, right wrote:

Prove this is necessary via science and data. Prove that running past a person on the sidewalk is a legitimate transmission risk.

Listen to yourself, nimrod.

Go read the CDC guidelines and it says as much.

No it does not. Also, guidelines are not science. They are suggestions and that is all. Nobody recommends wearing masks while running. It is stupid and not healthy.

Just because people breath hard all of the time does not translate to it being safe when you are impeding air flow; you are creating a negative pressure on your lungs with every breath inwards; this does not occur when breathing hard unimpeded. The recommendation is not wear a mask is you run past someone, it is wear a mask if you are indoors working out in a gym within 6 feet of someone. 0.5 s within 6 feet is not the recommendation for wearing a mask.

seattle prattle wrote:

this is dumb, right wrote:

Prove this is necessary via science and data. Prove that running past a person on the sidewalk is a legitimate transmission risk.

Listen to yourself, nimrod.

Go read the CDC guidelines and it says as much.

Again, not true. The guidelines do not say this, and again they are just guidelines not works of science. You are barely even required to take a lot of science courses to earn a degree in public health or get a job making these sort of recommendations. Look up degree requirements for public health degrees at any college or university; public health is strangely not science heavy; it is dogma heavy though and even then wearing mask while passing someone on a run is not part of that dogma.