Who wins in a marathon? 2008 OT Ryan Hall or 2016 OT Galen Rupp?

I wonder if this will eventually turn into one of those "you had to be there" threads. Had I not been there in November 07, I'd probably say Rupp without a second thought.

However, I was there. There was just something unquantifiable, perhaps incommunicable, about Hall that day. Maybe that was the single peak day of his running career, maybe it was one of a handful of days that every runner has where everything just aligns, who knows. Watching that guy that day in Central Park, and I remember Sell saying the same thing in a post-race interview, he ran with a "Je ne sais quoi" (I'll be putting myself on time out after this post for using such a ridiculous cliche) to the point where I'm not sure any other human being would've beaten him on that course that day. Am I under even the most remote delusional he was the best marathoner in the world in November 2007? Not even close. But on that day, on that course, I don't think anyone who witnessed the run in person would find it far-fetched that he wasn't getting beaten by anyone that day.

Hall had at least three days like that in his career (Houston Half 2007, Trials 2007/08, and Boston 2011 (Tailwind). He believes that God carried him on those days and always hoped for similar "help" in races. I am a Hall fan but I have to ask is there any American that made two Olympic Teams and had more disappointing results?

I agree with the poster that said that Rupp would have stuck with Hall and pulled away over the last 5k.

Hall was a bigger talent at the thon. However Rupp is more consistent. I think if they raced 10 times Rupp would win 8 of those with a 2:06 every time (fast course/perfect conditions) and Hall would run 2:08.

However the 2 times that Hall would win would be a 2:04 (with the current super shoes) and Rupp with more 2:06s.

Basically either Hall hit a home run or he struck out. Rupp is fine with getting walked.

Not all, junior. I'm a really "old people," and I agree with your ass_essment. Galen is cagey, competitive (mainly), and has greater "standing." Faster, too.

Kenaneeser Beckelay wrote:

Rupp hands down.

Rupp is a b*tch. He would lose.

Not The Father wrote:

Hall was a bigger talent at the thon. However Rupp is more consistent. I think if they raced 10 times Rupp would win 8 of those with a 2:06 every time (fast course/perfect conditions) and Hall would run 2:08.

However the 2 times that Hall would win would be a 2:04 (with the current super shoes) and Rupp with more 2:06s.

Basically either Hall hit a home run or he struck out. Rupp is fine with getting walked.

I think this answer is pretty fair. Wish Hall would've held on a few more years before going full body builder. Would've liked to have seen him race in 2017 & 2018 with the shoes and in a Berlin/London/Marathon Project type setting. His half record hasn't really been sniffed at even in the super shoe era. I would say Rupp has the better marathon results overall. He's super consistent. He has medals. He has major wins. He has the track credentials.

I do think, however, that that 2007 Trials race was peak Hall. It would have been tough for Rupp to get him that day. 2020 Rupp ran 2:09 on a hilly course with some fast shoes on. 2007 Hall ran 2:09 on a hilly course, winning by 2 minutes. So I'll say on that specific day Hall wins but Rupp beats him more than he loses to him H2H if their road running careers aligned.

Hall.

I find it interesting that the running community has basically treated Ryan Hall like Tim Tebow. Being that Hall was always highly religious, and had no scandals, many runners found Hall almost not to be believed.

We can't take Houston 07 away.....59:43 set a precedent

And we can't take Boston away....2:04:58 forced two African runners to set a record shattering pace (though unofficial, i know) to beat Hall.

So let's look at this 2:06:17.

At the time that Hall was on top, Hall could pick his pace. While I am not suggesting that Hall could have gone sub 2:05 in the 08 trials, I am suggesting that he could have gone faster if needed.

Ryan Hall raced as a natural tactician and wasn't scripted. The altitude training he used to do was regularly discussed.

Rupp is good, but on a who wants it more one vs one competition, it's Hall because his self -discipline aside from coaching had a less breakable foundation.

It may have been difficult for Rupp to know what to do outside of the planning that he and Salazar had done.

Hardloper wrote:

If Hall gets to wear clownshoes equal to Rupp's then it's not even close

Rupp is alpha. Hall is beta.

What he sees as “Gods help” was actually just a nice tailwind on each of those days. All of Halls PBs can be compared to the super shoes because he had an equivalent time bonus from getting pushed along by wind.

I also watched those trials, and Hall looked like he couldn’t be beaten on that day. My bet would be Hall.

However, this is like a Tyson vs. Ali prime or a Jordan vs. Lebron type debate. It’s all speculation.

I will agree that Rupp is more consistent.

You guys must be smoking crack if you think Rupp can run 2:02 or 2:03. It's pretty funny bc years ago Canova was asked about the marathon potential of Rupp and Farah and he said he really doubted that they could run faster than 2:05. I think at the time the VF was still under wraps or the independent studies had not come out yet and even with the shoes they have still not bettered 2:05. That Chicago win by Rupp was a travesty as well. Idk what happened there but the field was just not up to par on that day.

Why is it that Rupp is seen as a beta in practically every thread here except when compared to Hall. That's weird. Do athletes have a dispute with Christ?

Bullet_Proof wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

If Hall gets to wear clownshoes equal to Rupp's then it's not even close

Rupp is alpha. Hall is beta.

Rainy Day wrote:

I also watched those trials, and Hall looked like he couldn’t be beaten on that day. My bet would be Hall.

I was there and agree on that there is no chance Rupp could have beaten Hall on that day.

Hall split a 62 on the second half of the race (two loops of the hilly central park): it looked so easy that it was unbelievable. Towards the end he slowed down to high-five the kids along the course. I am positive that he could have popped a 61 if he had more competition.

HALL hands down..... however, not 2016 but 2020 Rupp .That would be close. 2008 Hall was a man on fire that day

briswiss wrote:

Kenaneeser Beckelay wrote:

Rupp hands down.

Rupp is a baller. He would win.

Fixed it for you.

This thread really highlights the importance of discipline. Lots of people were better than Rupp in their prime. Prime Hall was better at the marathon than prime Rupp. Prime Webb was better at the mile than Rupp has ever been. Solinsky was better at the 10,000m for about a half hour out of his whole career.

But so what? Rupp is still a professional athlete competing on the world stage while all these other guys came and went. Sure, 2008 OT Hall beats 2016 Rupp, but without discipline and consistency, where did that get him?

"On a who wants it more competition"?!

What meth are you on?

If thats the case, then why did Hall CHOKE at the 2008 olympics - which requires more competitive hunger - whereas Rupp earned an Olympic medal?

You cant say it was the competition because Rupp was running against the greatest marathoner of all time.

Hall placed a choker 10th.

Next.

It wasn't his day.

And that's that.

Stoppit Smith wrote:

It wasn't his day.

And that's that.

Yep, luckily this thread isn't about that race.