There is no education that can tell you which one is a better runner, only which one was a better runner. Six months has passed since we saw them compete. Much could have changed since then. Dudek may be the best runner in the NCAA right now. We don't know.
Random but Dudek was #1 last fall in xc.
Also I wonder how good starliper and tuohy will be. Maybe 5000m runners in college?
J or J wrote:
There is no education that can tell you which one is a better runner, only which one was a better runner. Six months has passed since we saw them compete. Much could have changed since then. Dudek may be the best runner in the NCAA right now. We don't know.
Well obviously Dudek was the runner you were referring to at Stanford! You say, “ There is no education that can tell you which one is a better runner, only which one was a better runner.“. So the most recent facts we have is that when indoor season shut down Starliper was #1 in the nation in the 1500 ( 4:19), Mile (4:37), 3000 (9:07), and all these performances were top 5 All Time! My point is simple, how can someone make the statement that Stanford got the best miler not N.C. State, when the Wolfpack got Tuohy who is the National record holder, and Starliper who ran the fastest mile since that record over three years ago and who was the NBN mile Champion and won the Millrose mile the last two years setting the all time record there?!?!
All we can say for now is that N.C. State landed the two best high school milers in the nation, not Stanford! Could it change in the future, absolutely, but not presently!
Don't leave Starcher out of the mix with the mile. She defeated Starliper by 3 seconds at the Penn Relays breaking Mary Cain's record- running at 4:38. She is joining Dudek at Stanford. she also has the fastest 800 of all three of them at a 2:07. Give her time to train and she will be right with those two.
Distancefan wrote:
Don't leave Starcher out of the mix with the mile. She defeated Starliper by 3 seconds at the Penn Relays breaking Mary Cain's record- running at 4:38. She is joining Dudek at Stanford. she also has the fastest 800 of all three of them at a 2:07. Give her time to train and she will be right with those two.
I agree on Starcher, of the runners mentioned she would seem to have the highest upside as a miler. Her last 300 m at the Penn Relays was pretty impresssive.
But based on performances during the limited 2020 season, I didn't see much difference between Tuohy, Starliper and Dudek in fact I think Dudek posted the slowest time of the three for whatever that is worth.
7empest wrote:
Also, Starliper has always been very transparent in interviews......has anyone asked or interviewed Her???? I don’t think so!
I would think the press or some milesplit noobie would love to interview her. I cant imagine no one has asked. But then I dont see a problem with coaches having some control over what their kids say to the press to some extent since I am of the John Thompson school of press handling for college athletes. We will find out in time. But I do agree with you about Starliper. Shes a great kid who is always open in her interviews. She gave some student interviewer a full hour of her time early this year in an interview and thats really generous of her.
Now, Tuohy is a different story, her and her team have always been abrasive and secretive
I dont know about "abrasive". I mean think about how much that poor kid was stalked in high school. Can you blame her parents for being protective and not wanting her to get overwhelmed? She still did work out videos and cameos with bloggers and all that. She was just a little smart assy to annoying adults chasing her around with a mike trying to get them to tell her mileage and work out secrets and where she was committing before she announced. That gets old and annoying especially when you are the biggest fish in the pond.
I get why there’s so much interest, but young collegiate athletes like Tuohy and Starliper would be best served by being ignored until if and when they emerge as elite NCAA runners at the very least. I would argue they should be ignored until if and when they turn pro. We all know the odds are stacked against them. Let’s leave them alone and give them a chance to progress in peace.
Wise Old Man wrote:
I get why there’s so much interest, but young collegiate athletes like Tuohy and Starliper would be best served by being ignored until if and when they emerge as elite NCAA runners at the very least. I would argue they should be ignored until if and when they turn pro. We all know the odds are stacked against them. Let’s leave them alone and give them a chance to progress in peace.
As a fan of the sport I do not agree with this. Maybe people shouldn't be mean online if they do not have the same success as highschool(I am not one of those)
BUT I can not think of any similar caliber athletes that were not scrutinized the first few college seasons. How will our sport grow if no one has anything to talk about?
Grant Fisher, German fernandez, Mary Cain, Drew Hunter etc all received lots of press/attention after highschool and no one complained because they were doing good.
People still wonder about runners like Jantzen oshier, Elias Gedyon, Chelsea Sveinsson, Megan Goethals, Verzbicas etc People still wonder what they are up to! Attention comes with greatness. Look how we look at #1 nba draft picks and how they are scrutinized for years after being drafted.( Derrick Rose, Greg Oden, Anthony Wiggins, Kyrie Irving etc) They do not all materialize and it is inevitable. Athletes with this level of fame get far more negative press than any runner could imagine.
Greg oden is a good example here actually. He came into the league hurt If I remember correctly. you can not be that good then expect no one to mention you or ask your status *as an athlete
Distancefan wrote:
Don't leave Starcher out of the mix with the mile. She defeated Starliper by 3 seconds at the Penn Relays breaking Mary Cain's record- running at 4:38. She is joining Dudek at Stanford. she also has the fastest 800 of all three of them at a 2:07. Give her time to train and she will be right with those two.
Yea, the problem is that Stanford made a coaching change and it is not for the better.
As a fan of the sport I do not agree with this. Maybe people shouldn't be mean online if they do not have the same success as highschool(I am not one of those)
BUT I can not think of any similar caliber athletes that were not scrutinized the first few college seasons. How will our sport grow if no one has anything to talk about?
Grant Fisher, German fernandez, Mary Cain, Drew Hunter etc all received lots of press/attention after highschool and no one complained because they were doing good.
People still wonder about runners like Jantzen oshier, Elias Gedyon, Chelsea Sveinsson, Megan Goethals, Verzbicas etc People still wonder what they are up to! Attention comes with greatness. Look how we look at #1 nba draft picks and how they are scrutinized for years after being drafted.( Derrick Rose, Greg Oden, Anthony Wiggins, Kyrie Irving etc) They do not all materialize and it is inevitable. Athletes with this level of fame get far more negative press than any runner could imagine.
Greg oden is a good example here actually. He came into the league hurt If I remember correctly. you can not be that good then expect no one to mention you or ask your status *as an athlete[/quote]
I 100% agree! Well-put!
No, I love talking about the sport, but I think obsessing over when Katelyn Touhy or Nico Young are going to run their first collegiate race is a waste of time. Yes, they were among the best prep runners we have ever seen, but at the next level that means close to nothing. Distance running is much closer to baseball than to D1 basketball or football. With the latter, the HS superstars are already true pro prospects. The road to being a pro baseball player or an elite runner, not an elite hs runner, has many more twist and turns and unpredictability. Touhy, Young and the rest will get all the attention they can bear if and when the deserve it, but right now they don't deserve it, and they will be better off for being ignored.
In the US if you like XC all you have is high school and college. If you wait for them to be "elite" or pro before giving them media attention then fans get nothing, or you have the strange situation where one or two runners deemed to be "elite" get coverage and those running next to them have to be ignored.
Ok, I get your point. I just think it's a matter of balance. College XC is awesome and worthy of attention, but I just think it is lame when everybody is like, "when is Nico going to run, when is Nico going to run...his first race!?" But want to discuss an athlete that might medal this year, like Cooper Teare...crickets.
facts and reason wrote:
Was it because of overtraining?
How did Ingebrigtsen at age 19 avoid major injury?
Being born Norwegian.
Wise Old Man wrote:
Distance running is much closer to baseball than to D1 basketball or football. With the latter, the HS superstars are already true pro prospects.
Half-true...may be true for basketball but definitely not football. There are all sorts of complex schemes in addition to just being put on advanced strength training programs that influence a football player's development. No player out of high school is even big enough to compete with the pros, nor have they gotten experience playing with guys who are much bigger and faster than them. In basketball you don't have to deal with all the collisions. your body doesn't have to build up and grow like a football player's body.....
Compare high school photos of today's NFL stars with current NFL players and really think about whether they're a pro prospect in high school....
I'm happy their coach made the decision to answer some questions here, as it just makes the online speculating worse. It seems like this was the right choice for both of them. Injuries happen.
With that being said, I totally understand why they were all being coy about it. I can't imagine being Katelyn, living under a microscope. With young girls, it's especially bad because it feels like everyone is waiting to pounce and call her a burn out. Getting specific about injuries might heighten that and put extra pressure on her. But chill. injuries happen to all. COVID might have slowed things down for her at the exact right moment tbh.
Who says I'm upset? I just find it a little baffling. As I said, I'm not expecting lots of detail, but a sentence on the general nature of the injury would be interesting. From what I've read, I'm not convinced that HIPAA and FERPA actually prevent the coach from commenting, but it's entirely possible that that was a factor. And, yes, it's pretty clear from the article that Henes was asked about the injuries. And to the others: 1. Zion was a college freshman at the time, not a millionaire, though of course the millions were coming. 2. Hate to feed the idiot trolls, but nothing at all perverted about following the best collegiate women in the country. Somebody said it well on the original KT thread: it's you who has the problem by assuming that any interest is lurid. Think about it: who's the sexist, the fan of women's sports or the person who assumes that fans of women's sports are fans only to ogle the women? For the record, I'm just as interested in the men's side and if Nico Young had been out for a while I'd have the same interest in his status.
7empest wrote:
First, how has N.C. State been so secretive? I would bet that nobody asked coach Henes! Let’s Run asked and they got some answers. But to be upset about specifics of two 18 year old freshmen is a little ridiculous. We are not entitled to that if the athletes and parents don’t want that info released. NC State is very family focused and for all we know the coach is respecting their wishes.
Also, Starliper has always been very transparent in interviews......has anyone asked or interviewed Her???? I don’t think so! Now, Tuohy is a different story, her and her team have always been abrasive and secretive, so you may not get an answer there.
not a doctor, but... wrote:
HIPAA only applies to medical professionals, so the coaching staff doesn’t have any limitations with what they can or can’t say regarding the health of an athlete. Whether they should be sharing their athletes’ personal injury details is a different matter, but it’s not in violation of healthcare law.
Agreed with on the other point on not setting a precedent, though.
Indeed. I have no idea why rojo brought up HIPAA.
The reason why a couch wouldn't go into specifics is simple: INOYDB. I dont know why they have a vested interest in everything. They said she had a knee surgery. That should be good enough for you. It is for me.
malmo wrote:
not a doctor, but... wrote:
HIPAA only applies to medical professionals, so the coaching staff doesn’t have any limitations with what they can or can’t say regarding the health of an athlete. Whether they should be sharing their athletes’ personal injury details is a different matter, but it’s not in violation of healthcare law.
Agreed with on the other point on not setting a precedent, though.
Indeed. I have no idea why rojo brought up HIPAA.
The reason why a couch wouldn't go into specifics is simple: INOYDB. I dont know why they have a vested interest in everything. They said she had a knee surgery. That should be good enough for you. It is for me.
I agree with you but it could also be covered under FERPA. Schools don't like giving out any information regarding athletes if it can be avoided.
The Fokus wrote:
malmo wrote:
Indeed. I have no idea why rojo brought up HIPAA.
The reason why a couch wouldn't go into specifics is simple: INOYDB. I dont know why they have a vested interest in everything. They said she had a knee surgery. That should be good enough for you. It is for me.
I agree with you but it could also be covered under FERPA. Schools don't like giving out any information regarding athletes if it can be avoided.
Can't edit on this board...."students" instead of "athletes".