Is it Normal to Train this Fast? (Tinman Workout)

Only the last one was particularly fast. The first one was kind of slow, the next two were pretty typical. The 4th was a little bit on the fast side but still not insane. The last one was near race effort I imagine.

Maybe they did the whole workout like that progressing to race effort because they're sharpening up for a race in a 2-4 weeks. If there is no race, I'm not sure the purpose of going that fast at the end of this type of workout.

aztec the moron wrote:

congrats you might be the dumbest poster on this site. your body can't respond to so many different stimuli at once. they would literally be better off doing one 1200 each day for 5 straight days and each one would be at a different pace. your body would adapt better from that.

You are embarrassingly ignorant of exercise physiology and training methodology. Maybe if you ask politely, some of the people on this site who know A LOT more about training than you do will enlighten you.

800 dude wrote:

aztec the moron wrote:

congrats you might be the dumbest poster on this site. your body can't respond to so many different stimuli at once. they would literally be better off doing one 1200 each day for 5 straight days and each one would be at a different pace. your body would adapt better from that.

You are embarrassingly ignorant of exercise physiology and training methodology. Maybe if you ask politely, some of the people on this site who know A LOT more about training than you do will enlighten you.

Care to post any studies that say mixing paces in workouts means the body can't adapt? This workout is far from my favorite but I am also unaware of any studies that suggest the body can't adapt to multiple paces in the same workout. Sounds like a lot of broscience to me....

I don't think you understand how fast these guys are. No, it's not normal to train this fast, in fact it's normal for athletes of this caliber to train much faster. The first rep for them would have been an easy warmup rep at around their tempo pace, then more around threshhold for the second, down to around 10k pace for the third, 5k for the fourth, and 3k for the last.

For a distance runner, that's pretty much a tuneup workout getting ready for a race.

literally every single exercise physiologist says mixed pace workouts are bad.

It's also just common sense. Go run 6 miles every day, do 12x100m sprints all out every day, and lift for 90 minutes a day, then report back when you get decent at even just one of those areas.

aztec the moron wrote:

This is one of the dumbest workouts of all time. You should not use this workout in any way when deciding how to structure your own training or that of anyone else.

They ran five 1200s, each at an ENTIRELY different pace. They will get virtually no benefit from this workout because they didn't spend nearly enough time in any zone.

This is a example of Tinman's ineptitude as a coach.

Dumb or dumber? No benefit? This was a Dellinger standard. Let's be thankful you're not a coach.

aztec the moron wrote:

literally every single exercise physiologist says mixed pace workouts are bad.

.

1) name them.

2) ignore them

Welll......according to me just what I would call a " non-goal purpose workout" or "a guess workout" . Won`t be possible to exact define what such workout will give in development.

And as a couple of posters already pointed out , too slow reps in beginning of the workout.

My runners had insted got a perfect defined workout 8- 10 x 1200m at LT-pace with rest back to 120 bpm and a great boost of lactate threshold and the ability to recycle "waste products" into new energy to be able to keep up the fast pace for longer periods.

- The man in the non-depressing hole of Scandinavia - :) )

aztec the moron wrote:

literally every single exercise physiologist says mixed pace workouts are bad.

Just for fun, I picked the three books on my shelf that are probably the most focused on "zone training," Daniels, Vigil, and Friel. All three have mixed-pace workouts. (Admittedly, Friel has very little.)

Then I checked out Hudson, Canova, Magness, Coe & Martin. All have mixed paced workouts. The latter two are 50% or more mixed pace workouts.

Then I got bored.

There's a difference between throwing in some fast reps at the end of a workout and running 1200s where the first one is 38 seconds slower than the last one.

They went from approx marathon pace to faster than 3k pace just in the 1200s alone, then down to 800 pace for the 200s.

Go ahead and post workouts from those coaches that hit every pace from marathon all the way down to 800 pace in the same workout. I'll wait.

aztec the moron wrote:

There's a difference between throwing in some fast reps at the end of a workout and running 1200s where the first one is 38 seconds slower than the last one.

They went from approx marathon pace to faster than 3k pace just in the 1200s alone, then down to 800 pace for the 200s.

Go ahead and post workouts from those coaches that hit every pace from marathon all the way down to 800 pace in the same workout. I'll wait.

+ 1! :)

Magness page 284: 2 miles LT, 1.5 mile at 10k pace, 1 mile 5k pace , 4x300/200 jog at mile pace., w/ 4 minutes between reps.

Who sh!t in your fruit loops this morning dude? Good lord

Daniels (2d edition) page 266: 3 x mile at LT, 3 x k at VO2, 3 x 400 @ R pace.

Canova & Arcelli page 52: 3k in 8:15, 4 min recovery, 2k in 5:35, 3 min recovery, 10x400 @ 62, 1 minute recovery.

Give us a real one wrote:

Far from the best coach to give as an example I say.He doesn't have a clue.

Whatever you think about his ability as a coach, I don't think his grasp of the physiology of endurance running is really in dispute.

So out of all the workouts you posted so far, the biggest range is from LT to 1500 pace. That's FAR from marathon pace to 800 pace.

Even based on your own examples, this Tinman workout is a MASSIVE OUTLIER

So from what I've seen, it sounds like aztecthemoron and JS think it's a terrible workout, and everyone else thinks it's fine and not too different from what most other coaches do every now and then. And only aztecthemoron believes that humans can't adapt if they train at a wide range of paces in one workout (specifically marathon/tempo pace down to 3K pace).

Does that sum it up?

You're overthinking it. It's a cutdown workout, the early 1200s around tempo effort aren't the primary stimulus. It's not like the workout is targeting "marathon pace" (in your words).