Investing, politics, and covid politics wrote:
Most people don't seem to find it necessary to disprove the types of accusations I'm making. They also don't seem to write such similar things. New topic, same smell.
You're kind of toxic, dude.
Investing, politics, and covid politics wrote:
Most people don't seem to find it necessary to disprove the types of accusations I'm making. They also don't seem to write such similar things. New topic, same smell.
You're kind of toxic, dude.
~4:50, maybe even faster. This might seem too fast for average, but the ability to train and not get hurt is a kind of talent in itself, and based on these variables we are granting that talent. We had a lot of unspectacular athletes go sub-5 at 35mpw and 3 fast workouts/races a week. The guys who didn't crack 5 did not miss it because they weren't naturally fast enough, it was because they sat out 2-3 months every year because their bodies couldn't handle the high intensity program.
I think it's also a misconception how much mileage good high schoolers are doing, outside of the perennial NXN teams. The classic local elite HS with a few 4:30 milers will hit 60MPW training for cross country and claim they do that the whole year, while in reality once indoor and outdoor track season hits, they're blasting 400 repeats or racing 2-3x a week, and they'll only hit 40 miles if the athletes are doing their Sunday solo runs.
So this is a more intense training program than basically 90% of high schools. I don't see anyone completing this and not breaking 5 minutes.
However, if you give the average person 2 years to train and the kid can get injured for overtraining, it's gonna be bad. 5:40+
Sham 69 wrote:
You're kind of toxic, dude.
"Stop trolling"
flvmmox wrote:
~4:50, maybe even faster. This might seem too fast for average, but the ability to train and not get hurt is a kind of talent in itself, and based on these variables we are granting that talent.
However, if you give the average person 2 years to train and the kid can get injured for overtraining, it's gonna be bad. 5:40+
Yeah, I can agree with this
You guys have never been a gym teacher. Your exposure has been to the best 50 guys out of 1000 at your school. The worst 50 guys negate the best 50 guys.
I doubt the worst 50 guys were training 40-60 miles per week without injury all year for 2 years.
High schoolers run year round. They run 60MPW as summer XC training. They then have XC season from Aug 15 to Nov 30. Back to 2 months of base training before indoor track starts Feb 1 and outdoor starts April 1.
Yes but you are taking a population of ALL 1000 kids at the school. It is unreasonable to assume that all 1000 of them are training at such a high volume. You should be only measuring against the kids who are in track and cross country. It is not the same to say ALL high schoolers when we are measuring against a cross country runner, which is not a majority of most schools.
Dr. of Nothing wrote:
Your exposure has been to the best 50 guys out of 1000 at your school.
There are lots more people who could be good if they just tried, but they won't because track/xc are "last resort" sports. Plus it's hard to stay motivated and keep with it when first starting.
Those were the rules.
ElGuerroujFan wrote:
I would guess around 5 flat. It is a lot easier to get to that time than most people think, especially given the variables. It would also depend a lot on the recovery run pace. If they aren't recovering properly, they would most likely not improve as much as they could. Played sports growing up is a huge factor, and one that could change a 5:10 to perhaps 4:5x. I truly believe a lot more kids could hit a sub 5 than many might think.
A majority of kids could run sub 5. You would have like 10% who are just too fast (i.e. 100m runner) or big (i.e. you have a 6'4 body with a really wide frame) but they are the exception. Our HS ran ~50mpw and pretty much everyone who did the program for 4 years broke 5. Granted that was a bit of a self selecting group. And I wouldn't say our training was remotely optimal. We raced to often, workouts were tough for the winter months, and so on. But we would have a like 2 dozen guys in that 4:50-5:10 range but only 3-4 in the 4:30-4:50 range and 1 or 2 faster... Lots of guys with like 59s 400m speed. Not many with sub 55. Makes me think that the something like 4:50 might be closer but I would be stunned if it was 4:40....
And yes there are some people like David45 who are either horribly untalented or just really out of shape. Most of them though don't hangout on runningboards...
The question was asking how fast an average high school runner can run the mile GIVEN CERTAIN VARIABLES. You keep ignoring that part. You are trying to justify yourself with evidence that doesn't even pertain to the original question. If you can find me some evidence of people who run 6-7 minutes for a mile on 40-60 minutes a week, then fine. But you are trying to support yourself with irrelevant evidence.
Wrong. I did not grow up playing sports. I did some bike riding, but maybe 20 miles tops, at an easy pace. I did cross country and track my senior year only and did not train particularly hard. I ran 5:25 in the spring after less than a year of pretty easy training. I think 2 years of serious training could easily have gotten me to sub 5. I would say I'm the definition of an average runner with lifetime PRs of 19:19 5k and 39:30 10k (only ran sub 40 once, when paced by a friend).
Dr. of Nothing wrote:
First one out of the shoot completely misses the mark. Many high schools have entire XC teams doing that training and the average guy on the team runs 6 minutes. No. The average kid, I assume we mean median, will run 7 minutes.
ssjimbo wrote:
Wrong. I did not grow up playing sports. I did some bike riding, but maybe 20 miles tops, at an easy pace. I did cross country and track my senior year only and did not train particularly hard. I ran 5:25 in the spring after less than a year of pretty easy training. I think 2 years of serious training could easily have gotten me to sub 5. I would say I'm the definition of an average runner with lifetime PRs of 19:19 5k and 39:30 10k (only ran sub 40 once, when paced by a friend).
Dr. of Nothing wrote:
First one out of the shoot completely misses the mark. Many high schools have entire XC teams doing that training and the average guy on the team runs 6 minutes. No. The average kid, I assume we mean median, will run 7 minutes.
We have no idea if you are an average runner, below average, or above average. We would need 1000 people to do the exact same thing and see what happens.
That being said I bet most runners experience mirrors yours pretty closely...
Can you idiots please stop replying to all these david45 threads
Most people never reach that time during their whole life, why would you think an average Joe could get down there on two years of hard training?
Just from observing my own improvement and the amount of people that are fast at the school soccer and basketball teams already.
Kev2 wrote:
Most people never reach that time during their whole life, why would you think an average Joe could get down there on two years of hard training?
Because most people never run40-60mpw in their teens. Of the ones that do, pretty much all of them run sub 5.
ElGuerroujFan wrote:
The question was asking how fast an average high school runner can
Not high school runner.
High schooler.
Some of the conditions would rule out some of those high schoolers, but the question was definitely not limited to runners.
Anyone who survives the training you suggest is going to run 4:50 or better. The non-athletes will be running 5-flat. Anyone with any talent is going sub 4:30 easily.