It's because they didn't get planes capable of flying to big events until the 60's.
It's because they didn't get planes capable of flying to big events until the 60's.
Just wait its just starting . Their domination will fully spread when all the non African countries starts recruiting them to represent their country .
Squatting Turtle wrote:
It's because they didn't get planes capable of flying to big events until the 60's.
They had the planes
They just didn't know how to fly them
Epo. That is all.
I disagree with both premises: Africans did well before 1990, and they still don't exactly dominate the Olympics due to the 3 athlete limit and other event-peculiar rules.
I would agree that track, like most things, has globalized over time.
The East African myth was just epo wrote:
Epo. That is all.
Still, the East Africans have a ton of genetic advantages for running
kilbi? wrote:
Coevett wrote:
Bikli in 64 is highly suspicious. An Ethipian victorious on the streets of Rome only a couple of decades after Mussolini had conquered Ethiopia. giving the emperor Halie Salasie revenge. A good story, just a bit too good.
The GDR modelled much of their athletics system on what Ethiopia had in the 60's. Bikli trained in the GDR and cheats like Beyer and Straub trained in Ethiopia.
Keino in 1968 was one of the most suspicious performances in history. No form that summer, collapses in the 10000m, then climbs literally out of his hospital bed to run the equivalent of 3:24 and destroy Jim Ryun who he had never beaten before.
Last year he was accused of embezzling millions from young Kenyan athletes but got off with it due to political intervention.
88 Kenya had several golds from unknown athletes who were based in the USA, where hgh had come out a few years before and was changing the landscape of middle-distance running (Aouita was another user).
It's true that East Africans dominated xcountry from the early 80's. Several of the Kenyans from the teams of that decade were busted.
From the early 90s EPO became widely available. It might even have been a factor in 88. As Mindweak said, the GDR and Soviet Bloc coaches and doctors moved to Africa, as well as Italians after blood doping became illegal in Italy.
Of course the huge population growth of Africa has played a part, although it certainly doesn't explain why Africans are LESS dominant now than 20 years ago.
Another reason is the decline of European and Australasian running. That's due to a number of things, including much more money in other sports especially soccer, obesity and xBox, population plateauing or even declining, and the perception (encouraged here) that East Africans are different from other humans and posses genetic advantages which make it near impossible for other races to compete with them.
Who is Bikli?
Buck Bikli was the champion skier from Ethiopia who won the slalom at the 64 Winter Olympics.
I do find it ironic that Bikili literally destroyed Rome in 1964, only 20 years after the collapse of Mussollini in WW2. That isn't very long. If there were an extra 100 tiger tanks in Tunisia the allies would have lost North Africa and Italy would be safe. Mussollini would still be in power in 1964.
Coevett wrote:
Bikli in 64 is highly suspicious. An Ethipian victorious on the streets of Rome only a couple of decades after Mussolini had conquered Ethiopia. giving the emperor Halie Salasie revenge. A good story, just a bit too good.
Musolini never conquered Ethiopia. In fact the Italian army were beaten by rag tag Ethiopian militia
The GDR modelled much of their athletics system on what Ethiopia had in the 60's. Bikli trained in the GDR and cheats like Beyer and Straub trained in Ethiopia.
The idea that Germans would use Ethiopia as a model is just laughable
Keino in 1968 was one of the most suspicious performances in history. No form that summer, collapses in the 10000m, then climbs literally out of his hospital bed to run the equivalent of 3:24 and destroy Jim Ryun who he had never beaten before.
You can handle the fact this day, Keino was tactically better than Ryun
88 Kenya had several golds from unknown athletes who were based in the USA, where hgh had come out a few years before and was changing the landscape of middle-distance running
Then the USA should have dominated not Kenya.
It's true that East Africans dominated xcountry from the early 80's. Several of the Kenyans from the teams of that decade were busted.
No cross country runner from the 80s was ever busted
LIAR !
From the early 90s EPO became widely available. It might even have been a factor in 88. As Mindweak said, the GDR and Soviet Bloc coaches and doctors moved to Africa, as well as Italians after blood doping became illegal in Italy.
EPO was more readily available in Europe and North America
Of course the huge population growth of Africa has played a part, although it certainly doesn't explain why Africans are LESS dominant now than 20 years ago.
LOL they are far more dominat now. In 1983 for example, Kenya didn't win any medals at the world championships and only placed two runners in the finals. They finished 7th and 9th. Ethiopia won one medal
Another reason is the decline of European and Australasian running. That's due to a number of things, including much more money in other sports especially soccer, obesity and xBox, population plateauing or even declining, and the perception (encouraged here) that East Africans are different from other humans and posses genetic advantages which make it near impossible for other races to compete with them.
That and athletes arent allowed to dope as freely as they were before the 1990s
dinyiyo wrote:
Coevett wrote:
Bikli in 64 is highly suspicious. An Ethipian victorious on the streets of Rome only a couple of decades after Mussolini had conquered Ethiopia. giving the emperor Halie Salasie revenge. A good story, just a bit too good.
The GDR modelled much of their athletics system on what Ethiopia had in the 60's. Bikli trained in the GDR and cheats like Beyer and Straub trained in Ethiopia.
Keino in 1968 was one of the most suspicious performances in history. No form that summer, collapses in the 10000m, then climbs literally out of his hospital bed to run the equivalent of 3:24 and destroy Jim Ryun who he had never beaten before.
Last year he was accused of embezzling millions from young Kenyan athletes but got off with it due to political intervention.
88 Kenya had several golds from unknown athletes who were based in the USA, where hgh had come out a few years before and was changing the landscape of middle-distance running (Aouita was another user).
It's true that East Africans dominated xcountry from the early 80's. Several of the Kenyans from the teams of that decade were busted.
From the early 90s EPO became widely available. It might even have been a factor in 88. As Mindweak said, the GDR and Soviet Bloc coaches and doctors moved to Africa, as well as Italians after blood doping became illegal in Italy.
Of course the huge population growth of Africa has played a part, although it certainly doesn't explain why Africans are LESS dominant now than 20 years ago.
Another reason is the decline of European and Australasian running. That's due to a number of things, including much more money in other sports especially soccer, obesity and xBox, population plateauing or even declining, and the perception (encouraged here) that East Africans are different from other humans and posses genetic advantages which make it near impossible for other races to compete with them.
Another classic post by Coe-vette. So them been born and training at high altitude has nothing to do whatsoever. Just doping, right? Please, your anti-East African running posts are notorious here, it makes you borderline in the pariah category.
He also knows Bikli well.
Coevett wrote:
Bikli in 64 is highly suspicious.
A clown on so many levels.
It’s not.
Glad I could help.
Jerry Dial wrote:
Up until the 1990s, Africans were not doping. But Europeans and North Americans were neck deep in dope.
In the 1970s it was the Finns who pioneered blood doping. That epic battle between Keino and Vassala comes to mind as Vassala passed Keino as if he was standing still.
Europeans countries like Italy and the UK and Germany followed suit which is why Europe produced phenomenal distance runners during this period. Many world beaters came from western Europe during this era.
And of course the Eastern Europeans with their state sponsored doping programs, made it impossible for Africans to be competitive especially on the women's side. Added to that, cultural issue forbade African women from pursuing track as a career. This largely explains why No Kenyan and very few Ethiopian women won anything.
Then Africans got in on the doping act. The pioneers were the Moroccans. They got so good that they were winning more medals and more races than the East Africans. There are epic videos on youtube of Sahere besting Kiptanui in the steeplechase and of course Boulami set the world record at that distance.
Then in the 2000s, East African runners tired of losing to Morocco got into the act.
Today the playing field is level. Everyone is doping from the UK to Germany to Morocco to Kenya to Ethiopia, Italy, USA, Australia and so forth.
So how come all the distance doping busts over recent years have been East African. Ill tell you why. They were barely tested until the last few years. Still their testing taking into account bribes is behind the West in Kenya and more than a decade behind in Ethiopia.
In 1977, BBC Television explored the same question and made this movie Kenya Runner: Ron Pickering 1977:
Coevett wrote:
Bikli in 64 is highly suspicious. An Ethipian victorious on the streets of Rome only a couple of decades after Mussolini had conquered Ethiopia. giving the emperor Halie Salasie revenge. A good story, just a bit too good.
Bikli in 64 victorious on the streets of Rome? You really know your track and field history - maybe as good as your beloved president Donald Duck.
One word: professionalism.
You had trail blazers like Kip Keino during the amateur era to inspire future athletes. Then add prize money, and people start to take it seriously if they have a talent for it. Not sure if this is still true, but about 10 years ago you could like middle class in most parts of Kenya for $3,650 per year. That's not just rent, that's total. A large meal is $1. When these athletes get big prize money, it is far more life changing than it is for western athletes.
When you add incentive, more people turn out. With more participation, you better identify and cultivate talent. NBA and NFL pay well, so you find the very best in the country that turn out for those sports. If NBA and NFL became unpaid and the athletes couldn't get sponsorships, the talent would drop considerably as talented football and basketball players try other sports.
Before NFL was a big money maker, it was uncommon for players to do any strength training, and they'd practice a few times a week after work for like an hour and draw up plays in the dirty. That was 100 years ago. Now it is far more structured and safisticated because money was added to the sport.
If distance running paid more than NFL and NBA, the USA would do a much better job of turning out top talent because more talented kids would be identified and find their way to the sport. Then we'd have the levels of depth that Kenya and Ethiopia have, but we'd probably be just as good at the top end.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
So how come all the distance doping busts over recent years have been East African. Ill tell you why. They were barely tested until the last few years. Still their testing taking into account bribes is behind the West in Kenya and more than a decade behind in Ethiopia.
Because Kenyans aren't sophisticated dopers. They don't know how to hide their doping using techniques like microdosing or any of those sophisticated methods that Salazar devised or that the Russians use. We know there is widespread doping in Russia because they have been caught on tape confessing. Yet Russians never fail dope tests. We know European runners like Mo Farah and Sifan are doping yet they have never been caught. They clearly have ways of beating the tests.
Kenyans on the other hand think they can get away with jumping out of windows, or bribing testers with "money for tea" or simply skipping tests and faking accidents.
Kenyans are always behind the curve-ball when it comes to doping. When Europeans and North Americans were doping in large numbers in the 1980s, Kenyans didn't dope. When the Moroccans were dominating with EPO in the 1990s, Kenyans were behind the curveball.
Now all other countries have devised sophisticated doping methods to beat testers and Kenyans are yet again behind. If I were Kenyan I would invite Sifan Hassan for tea and ask for tips instead of giving the tester money for tea
Televised and live stream wrote:
In 1977, BBC Television explored the same question and made this movie Kenya Runner: Ron Pickering 1977:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjd-F-_Kn88
Look at all those cheaters, even the young girls. Why havn't they mentioned this at all in this movie?
Because you have free time to gaze into a screen in the palm of your hand for hours.
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