https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5%CE%B1-Reductase_deficiency#FertilitySince the gonad tissue develops into testes rather than ovaries, they are thus unable to create ova but may be able to create sperm. Male fertility can still be possible if viable sperm is present in the testes and is able to be extracted. In general, individuals with 5-ARD are capable of producing viable sperm.
Armin Tamzarian wrote:
little known fact wrote:
I am not sure how this makes sense. She doesn't run against women in her designated events because of XY/high T combo. She's free to identify how she feels, but the ability to make viable sperm would seem to confirm the current ruling.
I’m saying that the ruling keeping her from running the 400-1500 is bull. It doesn’t matter if you make sperm or eggs. If you identify as female, you should get to compete as a female. It’s really quite simple stuff.
What if you identify as a troll?
The point is that Caster is a sociopath and doesn't care at all about being fair in sports. This makes he/she no different or better or worse than other sociopathic cheaters like rupp, farah, centro, ramzi, radcliffe, armstrong, bonds.
RunRagged wrote:
Blah blah blah, look how much I know about IVF vs IUI....blah blah
A long post about nothing.
What difference does it make how she fell pregnant, it doesn't change the fact that Caster is female by only gender choice and not by biological design
jx 10 wrote:
Caster Semenya is looking to become a world class 200 meter runner after, good luck with that as I can't think of any athlete to ever make the transition from 800 to 200m?
Ana Guevara switched from the 800 to 400/200. One of the De Witte twins did the same. Can't remember which one, though.
Look, Caster has internal testicles
His wife has ovaries and a uterus
That's all the ingredients u need to make a baby
Complications:
- If he is on HRT then it's unlikely sperm production is high enough, also testicles would have shrunk. Of course she could stop HRT to make a baby.
- Sperm cells can be extracted from the internal testicles if it can't come out naturally
- Ewww I don't want to think about the details anymore O_O
Riddle:
If a man becomes a transwoman and a woman becomes a transman then they have a baby together, does this mean the pregnant transman is a woman cause only woman can get pregnant?
Kind of shatters this whole illusion doesn't it?
No matter what any of your opinions are on whether Caster should or shouldn't be competing with women, I don't know why it is so hard to refer to Caster with she/her pronouns. Just common decency and respect
What happened to human decency? wrote:
No matter what any of your opinions are on whether Caster should or shouldn't be competing with women, I don't know why it is so hard to refer to Caster with she/her pronouns. Just common decency and respect
In my opinion, Semenya waived the right to common decency and respect when she chose not to extend that very same thing to the legitimate female competitors who she has repeatedly robbed on the track. I have zero sympathy for her.
What happened to human decency? wrote:
No matter what any of your opinions are on whether Caster should or shouldn't be competing with women, I don't know why it is so hard to refer to Caster with she/her pronouns. Just common decency and respect
This is Letsrun. Decency and respect don't feature.
Viking21 wrote:
What happened to human decency? wrote:
No matter what any of your opinions are on whether Caster should or shouldn't be competing with women, I don't know why it is so hard to refer to Caster with she/her pronouns. Just common decency and respect
In my opinion, Semenya waived the right to common decency and respect when she chose not to extend that very same thing to the legitimate female competitors who she has repeatedly robbed on the track. I have zero sympathy for her.
I don’t think you know what “robbed” means. She ran a two-lap race against them and beat them fairly.
Viking21 wrote:
What happened to human decency? wrote:
No matter what any of your opinions are on whether Caster should or shouldn't be competing with women, I don't know why it is so hard to refer to Caster with she/her pronouns. Just common decency and respect
In my opinion, Semenya waived the right to common decency and respect when she chose not to extend that very same thing to the legitimate female competitors who she has repeatedly robbed on the track. I have zero sympathy for her.
At birth she was declared as a female and then raised as a girl her whole life, but because she has naturally high levels of testosterone and has hyperandrogenism you think she is a dirty cheater? While we are at it then, let's just disqualify anyone in athletics that naturally gets an advantage over others. Like, Bolt had much longer legs than most of his competitors it wasn't fair! Take away his world record! (IAAF was completely wrong in trying to limit testosterone in people born as female from birth)
*determined female at birth
Lenny Leonard wrote:
I don’t think you know what “robbed” means. She ran a two-lap race against them and beat them fairly.
You can't be serious. The unfairness is obvious to a reasonable person.
Biological females should not have to compete against individuals who are not biological females.
Semenya can call herself whatever she wants for social purposes, but she is not a biological female, which is what matters for track competitions.
What happened to human decency? wrote:
Viking21 wrote:
In my opinion, Semenya waived the right to common decency and respect when she chose not to extend that very same thing to the legitimate female competitors who she has repeatedly robbed on the track. I have zero sympathy for her.
At birth she was declared as a female and then raised as a girl her whole life, but because she has naturally high levels of testosterone and has hyperandrogenism you think she is a dirty cheater? While we are at it then, let's just disqualify anyone in athletics that naturally gets an advantage over others. Like, Bolt had much longer legs than most of his competitors it wasn't fair! Take away his world record! (IAAF was completely wrong in trying to limit testosterone in people born as female from birth)
I agree that we should acknowledge her with proper pronouns. That’s a separate discussion from Semenya’s ability to compete. But we absolutely discriminate when we separate men and women’s sports, where the distinctions are largely rooted in hormonal differences. So if we don‘t stand up and create regulations in situations like this, what‘s the point of separating the sports?
Determined female at birth*
*wrongly
She has an intersex condition, and in the place she was born (rural south africa) they obviously didn't know better.
She has internal testicles and XY chromosomes.
On the other hand she probably has external genitalia that looks more like a woman, or somewhere in between. We won't ever know. And would we want to know? I don't see her sporting a bulge in her pants.
So she is not a woman, but she is also not a man.
She is intersex.
And generally doctors will encourage such individuals to be raised as girls as it's easier - they can keep their true sex better hidden.
Of course she is free to self identify as whatever she wants. she is an adult.
However sports has only 2 categories: male and female and she is nether.
But if she impregnated her wife, then she is closer to a man, no?
And men should not compete with woman, as that's one of the definitions in sport.
This HRT ruling is stupid too.
In fact there is no real solution to this problem that will satisfy everyone
Ban her? ---> How is this fair?
Put her in men's category? ---> walks around naked in men's change room without a penis and testicles?
Put her in woman's category? ---> beats all the woman
Make an intersex category? ---> be embarrassed to be forced to identify as intersex
Take all money out of sport? --> then it doesn't matter who wins
Biology doesn't follow rules like we want sometimes...
Interesting question., but we don't know what Caster Semenya's biology is. I assume she' s not either an XX woman or an XY (self-declared) woman. In the latter case there would be no legal case for her competing against women at the international level. By elimination of those categories, she's probably an XXY woman - that's the easiest way to account for the difficulty World Athletics has had in keeping her from competing. If so, XXYs commonly (about 50%) produce semen, but typically not enough to procreate. 2-3% of such individuals are capable of reproducing. How much semen is produced depends heavily on the amount of testosterone an individual has. Testosterone supplements can enhance semen production in XXY individuals (who typically have much lower than XY testosterone levels).
Brittle Master 1958 wrote:
Semenya can call herself whatever she wants for social purposes, but she is not a biological female, which is what matters for track competitions.
King Tiger wrote:
In fact there is no real solution to this problem that will satisfy everyone
Ban her? ---> How is this fair?
Put her in men's category? ---> walks around naked in men's change room without a penis and testicles?
Put her in woman's category? ---> beats all the woman
Make an intersex category? ---> be embarrassed to be forced to identify as intersex
Take all money out of sport? --> then it doesn't matter who wins
Biology doesn't follow rules like we want sometimes...
People get all high and mighty about this stuff, but it’s obvious that she should ultimately be the one who decides in which category she will compete.
“Caster, are you a man or a woman?”
“Woman.”
Case closed.
Also, do you think dudes are just walking around with their wangs out between rounds? If that’s the argument against running against men, I don’t get it. How about 1:53-1:55 is not even going to qualify you for national championships?
T&F is so weird in how we defend women’s events as equal to men’s. The WNBA is inferior to the NBA and everyone knows it. But for some reason we are supposed to act like Jenny Simpson is every bit as good as Timothy Cheriyout, and that is ridiculous.
siehst wrote:
But we absolutely discriminate when we separate men and women’s sports, where the distinctions are largely rooted in hormonal differences. So if we don‘t stand up and create regulations in situations like this, what‘s the point of separating the sports?
"To a hammer every problem looks like a nail"
This is exactly why they try to convince us to accept definitions based on hormonal differences:
---They can easily measure it in blood tests
---They can alter it through HRT
BUT the differences in men vs. woman can't simply be reduced to hormonal differences.
For instance men and woman even have different muscle mass, heart rate, temperature, lung capacity, skeletal structure, ligament laxity, etc. And there is no way to change most of these.
Hell if dig up a skeleton of Australopithecus afarensis, do I do a hormone test to determine the sex??? Don't let these athletic commissions pull the wool over your eyes. They are just doing what is in their own interests and what is convenient for them.
Armin Tamzarian wrote:
“Caster, are you a man or a woman?”
“Woman.”
Case closed.
You don't see the flaw in allowing anyone to self identify what they are?
One day she's competing against woman , the next she is fathering a child
What's stopping me from self-identifying as black for instance?