hello? JS? wrote:
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
Interesting, can you give some examples?
You?
Gold.
hello? JS? wrote:
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
Interesting, can you give some examples?
You?
Gold.
hello? JS? wrote:
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
Interesting, can you give some examples?
You?
POTD!!!!
Something about long runs I find interesting. Canova has stated that after about 2-3 years of good mileage and aerobic base building, easy long runs do not stimulate the aerobic system as much as they used to. That’s why many elite athletes run their long runs fast, but not hard
cbenson4 wrote:
Drew is 22 years old. That means he ran 13:21 and qualified for worlds at the same age as a college senior. He's also run 3:35 and 7:39. What more can you ask of a young talent? He's doing extremely well under Tinman.
Was going to post the same thing. And I think it should be pointed out that he did most of that stuff LAST year, when he would have been a college junior. Who knows how much he could have improved this year.
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
Many of the top HS runners setting international age-graded records trained under his tutelage.
Please share the list of international age-graded records under Tinman.
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
TME Hater wrote:
German Fernandez did not quietly end his career during college. He ran professionally for several years. He ran 3:34 after he graduated, which is faster than what Hunter ran.
Hunter is clearly very talented. I posted this on another thread and didn’t get a good answer so I’m asking again: why do people think that Tinman is a bad coach?
His training philosophy seems similar to what all the other top coaches are doing. Hunter’s mileage is low. Some people argue he should be doing more. Colleen Quigley and Woody Kincaid are also very injury prone and also run relatively low mileage. So does Justyn Knight and many of the Bosshard athletes.
- many people, coaches and runners, think it's necessary to sprint all-out to reach one's potential in the mile or 3k. Tinman does not believe in all-out hill sprints or flat sprints, and caps his speedwork to ~400m pace
- coaches like Magness and Marcus critisized him for his
So yes, Tinman is doing many things HIS own way, but it also has WORKED many times over and over again. Many of the top HS runners setting international age-graded records trained under his tutelage. He managed to keep lots of "customers" injury free and allow them to PR. Even in his pro runners (TME), every single runner PR'ed soon after working with him. They have limited resources compared to NOP/BTC etc., but are training within their means and limits and seem to be making big improvements still.
A couple points:
1. This is where I disagree with Tinman most. To be a competitive runner on the world stage you need to be able to close fast. Look no further than Centros gold. Hunter has not shown a great kick, yet Tinman doesn't think he needs any speedwork. Then look at NOP and those guys monster finishes and how much they emphasize running FAST. If Drew Hunter wants to be a 1500m runner and isn't running fast, his ceiling is limited.
2. Nothing Magness and Marcus says has any value and should just be ignore. So don't worry about their criticism.
3. How has it WORKED for elite runners? Drew Hunter is competing on a world class level. Not a hobby jogger, not a highschool runner, not a subelite level like the other guys. So the jury is out whether Tinman works for an elite athlete. It is comparing apples and oranges. Yes Tinmen will work for those guy but can he develop a truly world class athlete. I personally don't believe so. For example, have a great high school coach train Rupp and see how that works for him.
4. Limited resources is not an excuse. He had every opportunity to get every resource Nike could throw at him and choose not. That was his decision. Like the athletes that signed to asics and wore crap shoes in the trials.
tl:dr Drew Hunter is a generational talent who is limited by his coaching. Needs more hard speed work .
shootpost wrote:
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
- many people, coaches and runners, think it's necessary to sprint all-out to reach one's potential in the mile or 3k. Tinman does not believe in all-out hill sprints or flat sprints, and caps his speedwork to ~400m pace
- coaches like Magness and Marcus critisized him for his
So yes, Tinman is doing many things HIS own way, but it also has WORKED many times over and over again. Many of the top HS runners setting international age-graded records trained under his tutelage. He managed to keep lots of "customers" injury free and allow them to PR. Even in his pro runners (TME), every single runner PR'ed soon after working with him. They have limited resources compared to NOP/BTC etc., but are training within their means and limits and seem to be making big improvements still.
A couple points:
1. This is where I disagree with Tinman most. To be a competitive runner on the world stage you need to be able to close fast. Look no further than Centros gold. Hunter has not shown a great kick, yet Tinman doesn't think he needs any speedwork. Then look at NOP and those guys monster finishes and how much they emphasize running FAST. If Drew Hunter wants to be a 1500m runner and isn't running fast, his ceiling is limited.
2. Nothing Magness and Marcus says has any value and should just be ignore. So don't worry about their criticism.
3. How has it WORKED for elite runners? Drew Hunter is competing on a world class level. Not a hobby jogger, not a highschool runner, not a subelite level like the other guys. So the jury is out whether Tinman works for an elite athlete. It is comparing apples and oranges. Yes Tinmen will work for those guy but can he develop a truly world class athlete. I personally don't believe so. For example, have a great high school coach train Rupp and see how that works for him.
4. Limited resources is not an excuse. He had every opportunity to get every resource Nike could throw at him and choose not. That was his decision. Like the athletes that signed to asics and wore crap shoes in the trials.
tl:dr Drew Hunter is a generational talent who is limited by his coaching. Needs more hard speed work .
Let me add- I judge success by number of medals at Olympics and World Championships.
I don't necessarily care about times I care about winning.
As Drew has never been to a Olympics and World Championships partly due to being so young, it will be many years before I can fully judge his career.
shootpost wrote:
shootpost wrote:
A couple points:
1. This is where I disagree with Tinman most. To be a competitive runner on the world stage you need to be able to close fast. Look no further than Centros gold. Hunter has not shown a great kick, yet Tinman doesn't think he needs any speedwork. Then look at NOP and those guys monster finishes and how much they emphasize running FAST. If Drew Hunter wants to be a 1500m runner and isn't running fast, his ceiling is limited.
2. Nothing Magness and Marcus says has any value and should just be ignore. So don't worry about their criticism.
3. How has it WORKED for elite runners? Drew Hunter is competing on a world class level. Not a hobby jogger, not a highschool runner, not a subelite level like the other guys. So the jury is out whether Tinman works for an elite athlete. It is comparing apples and oranges. Yes Tinmen will work for those guy but can he develop a truly world class athlete. I personally don't believe so. For example, have a great high school coach train Rupp and see how that works for him.
4. Limited resources is not an excuse. He had every opportunity to get every resource Nike could throw at him and choose not. That was his decision. Like the athletes that signed to asics and wore crap shoes in the trials.
tl:dr Drew Hunter is a generational talent who is limited by his coaching. Needs more hard speed work .
Let me add- I judge success by number of medals at Olympics and World Championships.
I don't necessarily care about times I care about winning.
As Drew has never been to a Olympics and World Championships partly due to being so young, it will be many years before I can fully judge his career.
Let me add again- as I care only about winning I disagree with requiring "standards" I believe USAs should be Top 3 go. I know this in much a more a nuanced discussion but my point is don't you dare say "but but but Hunter qualified for the WC." No, he got a measly fifth. Didn't win a darn thing. 5th!?!?
@ 22yo, Hunter has pbs of 3:35.9, 7:39.85, 13:21.18 ... he’s doing very well with the coaching of Tom Schwartz, as are others that are guided by his training program. @22yo RUPP was not more accomplished...; he began to blossom after 23 with AlSal and probable PED use.
.....but he DID qualify for the WC. That’s a factual statement. Your issue with the qualifying process doesn’t change facts.
COVID-19 is tool of the left wrote:
@ 22yo, Hunter has pbs of 3:35.9, 7:39.85, 13:21.18 ... he’s doing very well with the coaching of Tom Schwartz, as are others that are guided by his training program. @22yo RUPP was not more accomplished...; he began to blossom after 23 with AlSal and probable PED use.
And what makes you think Hunter is clean? Dude isn't even good enough right now they are worried about testing him
We wouldn't have heard of him without Tinman. He has improved to 3:35/7:37-39/13:20 and qualified for World's, but was unhealthy. He hasn't become one of the great ones, but he has developed from high school; he is still young; his season was washed out due to COVID; and he's lost a lot of time due to injuries. If he gets healthy, he might run 3:32-33 or 7:35 and 13:05-9 one of these years, so don't count him out. One issue, in my mind, is the lack of top training partners at his level or above. A second issue is the lack of in-season finishing work, meaning high quality speedwork, to get him to his peak in any given year. Considering that he's been injured with the kind of work Tinman has him do, why not try more shorter, faster stuff? When I look back to how I got injured, in most cases it was on a tempo run, not in track work. I can think of one time I was injured in speedwork, and that was because I wasn't recovered yet from calf injuries I got from tempos.
fasciz wrote:
.....but he DID qualify for the WC. That’s a factual statement. Your issue with the qualifying process doesn’t change facts.
And this lady qualified for the Olympics! Factual statement.
But, I’m able to notice the difference between a true qualifier and someone who qualified based on technicalities.
https://www.cbssports.com/olympics/news/meet-elizabeth-swaney-the-american-skier-who-scammed-her-way-to-the-olympics/zxcvzvcx wrote:
We wouldn't have heard of him without Tinman. He has improved to 3:35/7:37-39/13:20 and qualified for World's, but was unhealthy. He hasn't become one of the great ones, but he has developed from high school; he is still young; his season was washed out due to COVID; and he's lost a lot of time due to injuries. If he gets healthy, he might run 3:32-33 or 7:35 and 13:05-9 one of these years, so don't count him out. One issue, in my mind, is the lack of top training partners at his level or above. A second issue is the lack of in-season finishing work, meaning high quality speedwork, to get him to his peak in any given year. Considering that he's been injured with the kind of work Tinman has him do, why not try more shorter, faster stuff? When I look back to how I got injured, in most cases it was on a tempo run, not in track work. I can think of one time I was injured in speedwork, and that was because I wasn't recovered yet from calf injuries I got from tempos.
That is another good point. Even if Tinman is a great coach will he truly reach his full potential training with much less runners.
I mean Rupp trains alone so it can work. Woody Kincaid also trains with 2 other 13:00 runners. So you can see both sides of the argument.
I will say, Hunter is setting himself up nicely with the youtube and marketing that it doesn't necessarily matter how fast he runs. I am sure 99% of pro runners who have reduction clauses and contracts are very enviable of this position.
No technicalities involved. He made the team.
How many 21 year old US men have made a world championship team in a distance event in the last 30 years? Rupp and Hunter?
fasciz wrote:
No technicalities involved. He made the team.
How many 21 year old US men have made a world championship team in a distance event in the last 30 years? Rupp and Hunter?
He made the team. Fact.
He also got 5th. Fact.
I am not impressed by either of those facts. Opinion.
macdaddy wrote:
fasciz wrote:
.....but he DID qualify for the WC. That’s a factual statement. Your issue with the qualifying process doesn’t change facts.
And this lady qualified for the Olympics! Factual statement.
But, I’m able to notice the difference between a true qualifier and someone who qualified based on technicalities.
https://www.cbssports.com/olympics/news/meet-elizabeth-swaney-the-american-skier-who-scammed-her-way-to-the-olympics/
Clearly you can't differentiate an elite athlete qualifying for the WC with a standard and a normal woman scamming her way into the olympics by changing countries twice ...
If the runners ahead of Hunter wanted to qualify they should've run the standard in time, simple as that. Hunter was a "true qualifier"
Made the team...eh. I would say qualified for Doha. He didn’t actually “make the team” because he didn’t go or compete
long runs wrote:
Made the team...eh. I would say qualified for Doha. He didn’t actually “make the team” because he didn’t go or compete
He qualified for the team. That’s the same thing as making the team. But keep telling yourself otherwise.
Salazar is a cheat who is currently serving a 4 year ban from the sport - Drew should not have gone with him.