This Thread Will Be Deleted wrote:
Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:
As an Asian American, I am so sick and tired of this "model minority" stereotype. Just because many of us are "thriving" as you put it, that does not mean we are not discriminated.
Got rejected from Harvard because there were too many Asians enrolled already?
That is among the least serious problems. But thanks for chiming in.
YBG wrote:
None of your statistics prove anything about institutionalized or systematic racism. It is possible that blacks commit a disproportionate share of all crimes and are also systematically oppressed by the police. One does not preclude the other.
Ask yourself this: If George Floyd had been a middle-aged white guy in a suit, driving a lexus do think he would have been treated the same way? No one really thinks that.
Actually yeah i think its very possible. Say what you will, but standing here today NO ONE knows why that officer did what he did. We dont know that he was motivated by racism. We just know he needlessly choked a man to death. It was certainly police brutality, but to claim it is also racism is both premature and disingenuous. I think its just as likely that the cop was being ignorant and reckless.
Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:
This Thread Will Be Deleted wrote:
Got rejected from Harvard because there were too many Asians enrolled already?
That is among the least serious problems. But thanks for chiming in.
But you acknowledge it is a problem and discriminates against Asians, right?
This Thread Will Be Deleted wrote:
Because there are other minorities on LRC other than black people and we don't ever see any asians, latinos, Mexicans, etc... playing the race card on here.
Sorry, I copied the wrong part of your quote. I meant to copy this:
I do not see evidence that blacks are being systematically oppressed by the police. I live in a rural white dominated area
Your situation is quite possibly the problem. People living in an entirely different situation spouting off how others should react to their situation. In that environment you likely wouldn't see police oppression. That is the very issue!
I would much rather listen to someone who has lived it and get their thoughts and advice.
This Thread Will Be Deleted wrote:
Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:
That is among the least serious problems. But thanks for chiming in.
But you acknowledge it is a problem and discriminates against Asians, right?
For me, a bigger problem is how they are stereotyping Asian students in their attempt to limit the admissions. That has a spillover effect on things way beyond college admission.
yoyoyoyo wrote:
The rationalization of racism goes way back.
https://www.splcenter.org/20180614/biggest-lie-white-supremacist-propaganda-playbook-unraveling-truth-about-%E2%80%98black-white-crimeThis article is a few years old but touches on a lot of the sentiment you see here.
Started reading the article, and just quit after multiple paragraphs on Dylan Roof and Donald Trump, everyone's favorite target for all ills. Basically if the article can't come close to addressing what it's title suggests it is about within 8 paragraphs, it's easily written off as a deliberate misdirection and unsupported.
The Southern Poverty Law Center has long been seen as leftist activism as opposed to anything productive. Even left leaning corporations and organizations actively avoid them.
Thats the one you copied earlier. And it was responded too
Good intentions only :) wrote:
I'm open to be convinced. Everyone's talking about how we need to create change in our culture so here's your opportunity to start with me. Don't waste it by getting over emotional. Secondly some of my data is slightly outdated, around 2010ish, but I figured it couldnt be too far off, if you find an issue with this let me know.
I do not see evidence that blacks are being systematically oppressed by the police. I live in a rural white dominated area that many would look at and have previously accused to be "racist". Yet one glance on Instagram today, #BlackoutTuesday, will show that nearly everyone in my community is at the very least sympathetic to the recent protests and George Floyd situation. I was raised very libertarian/conservative and am Christian. You can pretty much check all the other boxes that you would assume goes with that stereotype. From my perspective, I do not understand the outcry about police brutality against blacks on a large scale.
From what I can see, blacks make up about 40% of the incarceration population, while only being about 15% of the total US population. That seems off, until you realize that blacks are committing crimes at a very disproportionate rate in America. African Americans accounted for 52.5% of all homicide offenders and were 8x more likely to commit homicide than a white, and 6x more likely to be a victim of homicide. This remains more or less true regardless of the crime in question: blacks commit disproportionately more crimes than other racial groups. So it stands to reason that more blacks are in prison. It also stands to reason that these black offenders find themselves in altercations with police more frequently than other groups. Secondly, roughly 25% of people shot to death by police were black, which considering the crimes and violence crime rate within the black community, it appears to be less than what would be projected, so I don't acknowledge this as a prominent issue.
Once again, I can clearly see that the perception within the black community is that the cops are out to get them. Although perception is not always reality, this may still be true. I would love to hear well reasoned points from anyone who would like to chime in. After all, this past week or so has been all about social change, and I'm willing to be that change should the facts tell me too. I HAVE ONLY GOOD INTENTIONS AND A DIFFERENT OPINION
I will take your post in good faith but think the thread will be deleted. An internet forum is not the place to discuss detail about this but maybe I can give you some pointers.
With any statistics regards with race you must accept white, black, Asian, etc. are not discrete and don't have much basis in biology. Nigerians and Kenyans are both 'black' but have little to do with each other culturally, genetically, linguistically, etc. Same for Greenlanders and Iraqis. Barack Obama is black but probably has more European ancestry than African. I could go on. To treat them as discrete will lead to statistical distortion.
Race does exist socially. Racism is about perceived difference not actual difference. This social existence has many effects on the individual and there are many reasons which could contribute to differences in outcome whether you're talking about grades, income or crime.
Four compelling reasons for me:
1) Difference in living standards between the average black family and the average white family. Naturally this is going to affect life outcomes and chances. Ignore people who talk about single mothers - they are just trying to blame women for societial problems.
2) The police have built-up expections of the sort of person who's likely to commit a type of crime and use this as a basis to find more criminals. This means they end up ignoring crimes commited by white people because they do not look there.
3) Street crimes are targeted by police more than anything else. As I posted on another thread, a drug dealer is more likely to be caught than a buyer even though they are both complicit in a crime. Same for sex workers.
4) Similarly to race, 'crime' is also nebulous concept. A murderer and a shop thief are not the same. There are different motivations, rehabilitations, behaviors etc. and to label the both the same is wrong. Again a blanket category of 'criminal' will lead to statistical distortion.
Blacks make up 13% of our population.
There are more Blacks locked up in America than total number of people locked up in every other country on Earth except China.
If you think that makes sense or is justifiable, then there's little use trying to reason with you.
ok.
How about you take your head out your rear, stop, and listen to black people and their lived experiences for once. There is nothing “Good” in your intentions.
YBG wrote:
None of your statistics prove anything about institutionalized or systematic racism. It is possible that blacks commit a disproportionate share of all crimes and are also systematically oppressed by the police. One does not preclude the other.
Ask yourself this: If George Floyd had been a middle-aged white guy in a suit, driving a lexus do think he would have been treated the same way? No one really thinks that.
You’re now adding 2 variables—economic standing AND race. George Floyd wasn’t wearing a suit and driving a Lexus. A fair question would be, would he have been treated the same way if he were a white guy in jeans and a tee shirt who also worked as a bouncer?
If you appear upper middle class or upper class, you will be treated better by almost anyone you encounter than if you appear lower class or poor, regardless of race. The same goes for if you are conventionally attractive vs unattractive.
Icouldbeyourmom wrote:
YBG wrote:
None of your statistics prove anything about institutionalized or systematic racism. It is possible that blacks commit a disproportionate share of all crimes and are also systematically oppressed by the police. One does not preclude the other.
Ask yourself this: If George Floyd had been a middle-aged white guy in a suit, driving a lexus do think he would have been treated the same way? No one really thinks that.
You’re now adding 2 variables—economic standing AND race. George Floyd wasn’t wearing a suit and driving a Lexus. A fair question would be, would he have been treated the same way if he were a white guy in jeans and a tee shirt who also worked as a bouncer?
If you appear upper middle class or upper class, you will be treated better by almost anyone you encounter than if you appear lower class or poor, regardless of race. The same goes for if you are conventionally attractive vs unattractive.
I still believe it's more about your actions than your look.
bonkers! wrote:
there is no room for rational debate. you will immediately be labeled a racist for presenting data that does not conform the narratives of the mainstream media / BLM / protests.
it's an "us vs. them." the mob does not care for logic.
Except that the first two responses were rational.
Yours was the first one that was irrational and focused on "us" vs. "them" and "the mob".
Your post says a great deal more about you than it does about the possibilities for rational debate. And your little rant against "the mainstream media / BLM / protests" clearly demonstrates that you do indeed have a "us" vs. "them" mentality.
Good job on providing a scathing critique of yourself!
Hey look its that apple racial prophet. Here again to spread his warped definition of what is race, racism, and ethnicity. I think last time you said we are all the same and there is no difference? Just to confirm, is there also no gender? Is it the same? I think I'm going to walk into the womens restroom next time just to check. I think its just a perception that I am a male correct?
Going further, aren't we the same as animals? Would it be a problem if I snuck into a store a grabbed some shyt and claimed I was a rat and I didn't know any better?
racial prophet wrote:
I think last time you said we are all the same and there is no difference? Just to confirm, is there also no gender? Is it the same? I think I'm going to walk into the womens restroom next time just to check. I think its just a perception that I am a male correct?
Going further, aren't we the same as animals? Would it be a problem if I snuck into a store a grabbed some shyt and claimed I was a rat and I didn't know any better?
You see your post started well - taking one concept such as race and applying the same principals to gender. Yes my friend, women are oppressed as well as blacks. Who knew?!
WFH mileage 2 wrote:
... systemic issues causing barriers to upward mobility, which then causes the disproportionate crime rate you mention.
I am trying to keep an open mind so please provide examples of barriers to minorities that do not exist for whites.
Living in a white dominated rural area and being supportive of the BLM movement are inherently contradictory. If you reside in a place where minorities aren’t welcome you can’t support justice for the black community.