I am about 3 weeks out of xc season and am getting into winter training for the indoor season coming up in January. I hit 14:56 last year the first indoor meet in January. I was then injured an sat out the rest of the year. Im not looking for any one formula because obviously it doesn't exist. I just want to hear some of the training yall do to get ready for indoor. My goal is sub 14:30 and I need some help here.
25 x 400 in 69 with 3 minute recoveries. do 'em til ya pee blood.
bangalangadanga wrote:
25 x 400 in 69 with 3 minute recoveries. do 'em til ya pee blood.
I pee blood going a lot slower than that :/
bangalangadanga wrote:
25 x 400 in 69 with 3 minute recoveries. do 'em til ya pee blood.
BAHAHAHAHA. I'm dying here. 400s should be done as tune up work (MAYBE). Unless done with an incredibly small amount of rest, this would be quite ineffective for a 5k. Might I suggest 1000s at 3k pace w/ 1:00-1:30 rest. 5x mile at 5k pace is tough, but doable. If you do want to do 400s, you should be doing them at much closer to mile pace (so, 62-63) w/ 1:00 rest.
Get in a good amount of sub 5:45-6:30 pace running. If you feel good on easy runs, you don't have to run 7 minute pace. If you want to get faster, you should probably try to run faster sometimes.
makeithappen wrote:
I am about 3 weeks out of xc season and am getting into winter training for the indoor season coming up in January. I hit 14:56 last year the first indoor meet in January. I was then injured an sat out the rest of the year. Im not looking for any one formula because obviously it doesn't exist. I just want to hear some of the training yall do to get ready for indoor. My goal is sub 14:30 and I need some help here.
What exactly are you asking...?
The Honesty Police wrote:
bangalangadanga wrote:25 x 400 in 69 with 3 minute recoveries. do 'em til ya pee blood.
BAHAHAHAHA. I'm dying here. 400s should be done as tune up work (MAYBE). Unless done with an incredibly small amount of rest, this would be quite ineffective for a 5k. Might I suggest 1000s at 3k pace w/ 1:00-1:30 rest. 5x mile at 5k pace is tough, but doable. If you do want to do 400s, you should be doing them at much closer to mile pace (so, 62-63) w/ 1:00 rest.
No, those 400s will be plenty effective. There are more than just one way to do 400s. Not sure why you find that so funny and lethal.
I did a program once that had a build up phase of 8 weeks of 20 x 400 at 70 seconds with 60 seconds rest. It was ok, but I only did it one year.
Normally what worked for me in early to late season were 1200's on tuesday at 5k pace and 300's on thursday at mile pace and race or tempo on saturday. pre season would have been tempos(steady or mile/2 mile repeats on tuesday, hill repeats on thursday and plenty of solid 60 min runs or fartleks. Did a few long runs, but not every week! Extras were the key as well. weight training, circuits, etc.
I'm asking for some workout advice for someone wanting to go sub 14:30
jdj wrote:
The Honesty Police wrote:BAHAHAHAHA. I'm dying here. 400s should be done as tune up work (MAYBE). Unless done with an incredibly small amount of rest, this would be quite ineffective for a 5k. Might I suggest 1000s at 3k pace w/ 1:00-1:30 rest. 5x mile at 5k pace is tough, but doable. If you do want to do 400s, you should be doing them at much closer to mile pace (so, 62-63) w/ 1:00 rest.
No, those 400s will be plenty effective. There are more than just one way to do 400s. Not sure why you find that so funny and lethal.
There are multiple ways to skin a cat but thats a retarded one. 3 minutes rest between quarters at goal 5k pace... Makes no sense.
Hayduke wrote:
I did a program once that had a build up phase of 8 weeks of 20 x 400 at 70 seconds with 60 seconds rest. It was ok, but I only did it one year.
Normally what worked for me in early to late season were 1200's on tuesday at 5k pace and 300's on thursday at mile pace and race or tempo on saturday. pre season would have been tempos(steady or mile/2 mile repeats on tuesday, hill repeats on thursday and plenty of solid 60 min runs or fartleks. Did a few long runs, but not every week! Extras were the key as well. weight training, circuits, etc.
What pace were those solid 60 min runs?
The principle is easier than you think. Until 10 weeks before your goal race, run as many miles as you can, with a long run each week, hills every other week, a tempo every other week, and a weekly session of 12 x 200m at 30 seconds with 200m jog rest to maintain your speed. Your LR should be 18 miles most weeks, with a 20-miler once a month. Every other week, the LR should include the last 5-7 miles at faster than 5:50/mile.
A two-week rotation might be as follow, with the short morning runs being done as slow as you want, and the evening 12-milers being done at 6:20-6:40 pace, depending on how you feel.
M: 5/12 including 12 x 200m in 30-31 at the end of the longer run
T: 5/12
W: 12, with a 6-mile tempo that starts at about 5:40 pace and approaches 5:10 pace by the end.
Th: 5/12
F: 5/10
S: 18
S: 8-10 EASY, maybe a second run of 5 if you want
M: 5/12 including 200s as before
T: 5/12
W: 12, including 8-10 x 400m hill repeats at a good but not crippling effort
Th: 5/12
F: 5/10
S: 20
S: 8-10 EASY, maybe a second run of 5 if you want
10 weeks out from your peak race, cut your mileage from this schedule of 105-110 mpw to 85-95, and replace the weekly 200s with a VO2 max session. This can change each week and develop weekly from roughly 8x600 to 4x1200 to 6x1000 to 4xmile at goal pace, with 400m jog rest. Shorten the Wednesday tempo run and increase its speed. Replace every other LR with an 8-mile tempo at 5:40-5:50 pace. Replace the hills with something like 10x300m at 1500m pace with 200m jog rest.
I appreciate this information exactly what I was looking for. Last winter I did 65-70 a week with 6 x 800 at 2:16 every week and didn't get that results I wanted. So do you recommend workouts every week or what?
Running 100+ weeks is a foolproof way to run sub14:30. Theres no if ands or buts about it. Unless you get hurt, running that kind of mileage will do the trick, complemented with pretty much any semblance of reasonably effective workouts.
However, it is definitely not the only way. You can definitely achieve it running 70, 75 mpw as long as you have a good combination of long hard tempo runs, hills/strength work, VERY VERY good long runs (20% of weekly mileage), effective tune-up fartlek/repeat type work, and obviously taking your rest/easy days intelligently. Long runs are the most important part of training.
I did it. And I'm not that talented.
But if you don't trust medium-mileage plans, you are durable, and have the time to commit, by all means, do the high mileage. Ask Cam Levins how it turned out.
makeithappen wrote:
I appreciate this information exactly what I was looking for. Last winter I did 65-70 a week with 6 x 800 at 2:16 every week and didn't get that results I wanted. So do you recommend workouts every week or what?
Exactly what kind of results did you get from that training? What were your times at the beginning and end of that winter? How many weeks does winter mean?
I recommend one workout per week in the base phase, alternating weeks between tempos and hills. You get an additional tempo stimulus from the fast finish long runs, which should be the most demanding workouts for you at this point, at least in terms of recovery.
The 200s are essentially long strides, they're not really a workout. You can do 8 or 10 if you're tired and don't feel like doing 12, or you can do 150s or 300s instead. The idea is just to get your legs moving fast at the end of a run once every week.
During the competition season, you get more specific, replacing the base phase hills with VO2 max work, the progression runs with faster and shorter tempo efforts, and half of your weekly long runs with longer tempos.
tgt wrote:
Exactly what kind of results did you get from that training? What were your times at the beginning and end of that winter? How many weeks does winter mean?
Don't mean to be a total dick, but just read the original post.
wccelder wrote:
tgt wrote:Exactly what kind of results did you get from that training? What were your times at the beginning and end of that winter? How many weeks does winter mean?
Don't mean to be a total dick, but just read the original post.
The original post does not answer my questions
tgt wrote:
The original post does not answer my questions
tgt wrote:
Exactly what kind of results did you get from that training? What were your times at the beginning and end of that winter?
makeithappen wrote:
I hit 14:56 last year the first indoor meet in January.
tgt wrote:
How many weeks does winter mean?
makeithappen wrote:
I was then injured an sat out the rest of the year.
Of course I could be interpreting his statements in a different manner then the context of your questions.
To the OP, good luck in your quest. The only advice I can give is that when two of my friends broke 14, they both swore by a 2 by 12:00 tempo workout they did early in the year. The pace was 4:40/mile with a 2 minute rest.
What???
Where in his post does he state his beginning and end times? And where does he state how many weeks winter is?