How many on here are at or have been at 140 miles per week? I want to become as strong as possible for the 10k in the spring. Just want some feedback from people who have been there and done that. Did it feel like it made a big difference vs say 110-120?
Why run more?Ran faster!
My best racing came in the years when I'd do 130-150 during the summer. I paid no attention to pace. If I felt good I'd run fast, if not I'd run slow. The heat and humidity usually kept the intensity failry low. Come autumn, with shorter days and less fre time (I was a schoolteacher), i'd drop to 100-110. The intensity picked up naturally, I'd race mreo and do some half-hearted interval stuff at times.
At Christmas, I'd do a "mini-build-up" for about a month, going to 120-130, then drop back towards 100-110 for spring races, again with a bit more unintentional intensity than I'd had at the higher level.
come summer, it would be back to the 130-150 stuff, but it was always just a bit faster than it had been the previous year. Again, this wasn't intentional but was a by-product of having gotten used to running 100 or so at the faster paces through fall and spring.
I think the key to making this work was the interplay of really big miles with somewhat big miles done at more intensity than the really big miles had been done.
That's a long answer to your question. The short answer is that I think the 140ish weeks were the starting point for everything that worked.
140 a week is no joke. A teammate and myself are currently inbetween XC and indoor, and decided that it would be a good time to see how much we could actually run in one week. We had been to 110-112, but not close to 120 so we set that as the goal. Throughout the bulk of cross we averaged about 90 mpw including the peaking period. Prior to that we had numerous 100+'s. Since it was supposed to be a real shitty week weather wise, we decided to get 20 the first day in order to stay ahead of the game. We ended up doing that everyday:
Mon- 6,14
Tues- 7-13
Weds- 8,12
Thur- 6,17
Fri- 8,12
Sat - 9,7,7
Sun- 14
Week total = 14 runs, 140 miles
Each run was a progression, usually starting at 6:40's and working down to 5:50's. We ran by feel, and since we had no specific workouts that week, it was manageable. After about 110, everything started to feel the same. The two of us ran everything together, and by the end of the week, there was nothing really to say between us, it was just understood (we were still going to class and doing schoolwork which was a kick in the balls).
Since we are not racing in our main events until January, we thought it was a good idea to try now. Many people criticized doing this volume, but at this point, we are average runners at a mid major D1 program in the northeast - (i.e. long term development is not taken into account) Both of us have goals in the marathon which is not something any of the people around us seem to realize. Within the 2 weeks after doing 140, there has already been a decrease in race times, an increase in comfort during hard efforts, and quicker recovery between those efforts. Maybe its just confidence or some other placebo, but everything just seems easier now - I guess we'll see when its time to race...
To express approval of by shouting "bravo."
Nice job. I'm no expert, but it seems like you ran a little fast.
stipe wrote:
Nice job. I'm no expert, but it seems like you ran a little fast.
I am an expert, AVBERT gets it. Running 140 a week of "just mileage" is wasting time. Progressive runs are the equivalent to doing "many tempo runs," which, if you are doing them correctly you could do them 4 or 5 days a week.
For those about to rock, we salute you.
AVBERT I am like you brother. D1 runner who ran in the 30's for 10k in XC. Want to get it on in outdoor track and run 29 range. I'm in the North too...F*ckin' cold!
AVBART. That looks like some quality work. Is it safe to assume that you only do long runs every other week. Not to say that 17 isn't long but it shouldn't feel long if you're running 140 miles a week. I think you'd get better benefits by "only" running twice on saturday and stepping it up to 19-21 on sunday. The highest I've been up to is 134 but I did that off of 12 runs. That week I had a 16 miler and a 21 miler in it as my two single run days. Like you, many of mine were progression runs but I started at about an 8:00 pace and brought it down to about what you were doing (5:30-6:00, depending on the day)I felt too crappy to start at 6:40 pace but after a mile or so things would start to get into that groove again even when you could swear at the beginning of the run that it never would.
One of the beauties of running such mileage is that it teaches you great patience. All of the sudden racing a 10K feels almost short and a 5K or 3K indoors is the blink of an eye (a very painful one, mind you).
Good luck!
Great job. Keep it going.
Malmo, assuming someone is a 32 min 10k runner, wouldn't it make sense to start closer to 8:00 pace and then progress down (as someone else suggested)?
No, I cannot see any reason for a 32:00 10k runner to run 8:00 pace.
I was a 29:00 10K guy and was starting at 8:00. But... to each his own.
The key here is that you're not really running at 8:00 pace for very long. By the half mile mark we would already be at 7:00 minute pace and by the mile mark at 6:40. I'm guessing that my progression runs were almost the same butfor me, when I was running BIG miles 6:40 pace took a very small amount of effort. I like the first mile of my progression un to take next to no effort. Almost a shuffle. I know I'm not alone on this feeling.
malmo wrote:
No, I cannot see any reason for a 32:00 10k runner to run 8:00 pace.
I guess you and Wejo must disagree. Wejo did a lot of his easy days running 140-150 per week at 7:30-8:30 pace.
I guess you would also disagree with the Kenyans who, on each progression run, stumble out the door at 10:00 pace, only moving faster when the body has warmed up.
If the Kenyans need to start off easy and warm up at 10:00 pace for a few minutes, there is no one on this board who is truly comfortable and "going easy" if they bound out the door at 6:40 pace. Have some retraint.
AVBART,
Wow, to have those days back again. A few of us red-shirted indoors one year to train, and we had a few weeks similar to this.
It was a very hard endeavor, but I too felt so much stronger after the work was done.
We felt like 8 and 12 was the best way to get in 20 during the day. It is funny how much 8 and 12 feel like the same distance, but 6 and 14 are worlds apart.
Good luck to you guys, make sure you are on soft surfaces, and eat well!!
140miles a week is unbelieveable at this pace AVBART.
How did you avoid injury?
Kudos, sounds like you got the right stuff. Just remember that in the end it's all about racing.
can anyone explain the benefits from 140 a week vs 110-120 a week during midseason (I.E. you are doing interval work for either 10k, half-marathon/marathon stuff) what exactly would be the benefits? Cuz ive went threw periods where i ran 90+ for the whole xc season and through indoors and moved up to 105-110 for the spring, but hurt pretty bad through those stages, so now i just question whether its worth it to try and get back to 110 again
There is a good picture in the Pre book of him running vs. Gerry Lindgren, there are a few others in there...everyone with the exception of Lindgren looks to be laboring pretty badly...GL looks easy.
High mileage is the ticket, but again it individuAl based...100 may work for 1, while 120 for the other...I was a low mileage guy(50-60), but I have been doing highmiles(average just under 100 for close to 30 weeks) and the difference is huge...
Most of the mileage has been easy with 1-2 workouts each week and s long run of anywhere from 17 to 26 each week...
The key is just keep doing it week after week and don't listen to the "HATERS"!!!!