Todd Williams Reflects Back on His Career: Part II

He burst onto the professional scene by winning the US national cross country title in 1991 and used that to springboard himself to the top of the sport. His professional accolades include 4 US 10,000 meter titles (including 2 Olympic Trial victories);4 US #1 rankings at 10,000m; 10th, 7th and 9th place finishes at the 1992 Olympics, 1993 World Championships, and 1995 World Championships respectively at 10,000m; 2 US XC titles; a 2:11:17 marathon debut; a still standing US record for 15k (42:22) at the Gate River Run; and a 9th place finish at the 1995 World XC Championship when all the studs in the world raced each other in one race.

LetsRun.com caught up with Todd via phone last week in Boston where he was in town helping promote the adidas Boston Indoor Games and the sport of track and field by talking to youth in Boston area schools. He had announced his retirement earlier in the week. Our interview with him is in 3 parts.

In Part I We asked Todd about his career as a whole: he reveals his greatest moment, his lowest moment, and a lot in between. Plus, learn about the life of poverty and the shack (the later rumored "million dollar man") lived in coming out of college

PART II
Part 2 (of 3) below In part II, Todd leaves no stone unturned. He talks about what his training was like during his career and during his best year (1995), his infamous collapse at track nationals in 1997 (was the collapse the beginning of the end of his career?), and a topic dear to our hearts here at LetsRun.com the drug problem in the sport. He also gives us his candid opinion on Alan Webb, Dathan Ritzenhein and Bob Kennedy.

LetsRun.com (LRC): Looking back at 1995, that seemed to be your best year - 9^th at world cross, you set both of your p.r.'s in the 5 and 10(K), you ran that 42 minute (42:22 a still standing American record) in Jacksonville. What was your training like then? It sounds like in 96 you were training a little harder maybe too hard.

Todd Williams (Twill):The thing is that 1996 was bad but I came back in 1997 (and ran real well in 1997). I think if I had run a 5 in Europe (in 1997), I would have run faster (than I had before) because I ran a 13:20 (5k) at Sea Relays in 1997 with a 2:32 last 1,000 meters. And I finished at 2:11 in the marathon (in Chicago), 27:53 (10k) in Oslo (in 1997).

But the training never really changed. I think it was just years and years (added together that was key). I started in 1990 with my hundred mile weeks, and I would run between 85 and 115 miles per week the majority of the year and then I'd cut it down a little before the races. I just ran extremely hard.

As for specific workouts, I think that that's probably a just of waste of time to say. I'd do the 3 times a mile, 16 times a quarter, hard tempos of 30 minutes or longer. You know, the standard workouts.

There's really no magic to it. I was just fortunate enough to stay healthy and push the envelope as hard as I did. I mean even on my off days a lot of times I was probably pushing my threshold.

It was almost like the Kenyan way. But also I think that's the reason when in 1998 and 1999, once I tried the marathon, it all took a toil on my body.

Twill: I probably got a couple of 130 mile weeks in there but the marathon just never agreed with me. I ran the 2:11 but if I had to pick my best distance, it was probably between 10k and the half marathon in that range.

Twill: No, I don't regret that. The 10k was my bread and butter- that and the 15k at Jacksonville.
If I could have had two different running careers, I guess I would have run one (a marathon) in the Fall of 1995, run one coming off the good track season and see what happened. That would have almost been a Salazaresque marathon debut come off some really fast 10ks and boom (run a good marathon).

Twill: I took a lot of the Doug Brown, Stan Huntsman mentality I call it the Old Schoolmentality. I took a lot of the workouts they did over the years and stepped it up a notch. Instead of doing 16 quarters in 70 with a 100 jog, I would say, I don't need to run 70s any more. And I'd do them in 64 or 66 and progress.

With 3 x mile, instead of running 4:32s, I'd say, No I need to run 4:16s. I just took their program and put a little mix to it.

LRC: There was that one year at nationals and you'll have to help me out and tell me what year it was when you were in the 5k with Kennedy.

Twill: And I did the smack on the track. (Williams passed out mid race while on Kennedy's tale)

LRC: Yeah.
Twill: That was 1997. That was the year I thought I was ready to roll as I'd run 13:20 (at Sea Ray for 5k). And I had run some great workouts with Bob as we'd trained together and I thought to myself, I might have a shot a beating him on the track.

But Bob always had my number. I got him the one time at world cross, but at the 97 track (nationals) it was 85 or 80 degrees that day and they changed the race so they could see Bob and I on t.v. So instead of running at 8 or 9 p.m at night (they switched the race) to 2 in the afternoon.

But Bob and I are so stubborn-headed that we were still like, We're going still for the (meet) record - which is still like 13:15 for the US championship. And I'll tell you that was a weird day for me. All I felt was chills on my neck and then my heart racing and then 'Boom', (I was) on the track (as Williams collapsed), and then I woke up in the tent.

LRC: Not to say that you didn't do anything after (that race in your career) but I've heard a lot of people speculate that that one race put you over the edge and you could never get back to that (world-class) level. Do you agree?

Twill: Umm. I had never really thought about it like that. But you know how it is, when you push yourself day in and day out to the extreme level - I don't think our bodies are built to handle the pain that distance runner's put themselves through. Maybe that was a sign right there (from my body), We're going to shut you down.

You're still going to be able to push, but not to the same level that you pushed before. There is some truth to that probably, but I kept pushing all the way up to the last second (of my career) that was at nationals this past year.

I gave it everything I had this past year just to see where I could take myself. Got my body fat down to basically nothing, my training was great, my weight was good, my strength training, my stretching (all of it was good). And if all it could give me was what it gave me was 6^th place (at USATF nationals) and 28:40 and a 28:35 p.r. for the year that's when I realized, I've been there before, it's just time to for me to walk away on a fairly decent note and to walk away now.

LRC: You're walking away now brings me to Bob Kennedy. Do you think he can still do it or is he on his way out as well?

Twill: With Bob and I've known Bob since '86 or '87 I never doubt that guy. I mean if he puts his mind to it, he can still do it. It's going to be tougher because he is older, but I've talked to him in the last few weeks and he says he's healthy, he's getting his mileage up and he's ready to go after it again.

The thing about Bobby is he's so challenge driven that I think he looks at these young guys coming up and that just fuels his fire even more. To show people, Hey, Listen I can do this one more time and I want to go out with a bang. And the great thing is with the way our US distance running is right now is that there are going to be people out there ahead of him and behind him nipping him at his feet or pushing him along the way so he'll have someone with him to have some serious competitions against.

LRC: One other question I had is does it kind of gnaw at you that you never got the American record in the 10k?

Twill: Umm. Actually, I feel that at every event, say the mile, 3,000, 2 mile, 5k, 10k, marathon, 15k, I really think I ran as fast as I could possible run. I mean I ran 8:14 for 2 miles, 4:00.90 in the mile and my legs can barely turn over at 60 seconds. So I think I maxed my RPMs out at every event I couldn't go any faster.

Someone said to me, You ran 27:31 at Knoxville so in Europe it's (something faster). But I don't know. I just don't think I could run any faster.

Twill: Flat out, my hamstring would still be laying on the track, but it's probably 53-54.

LRC: Looking at the track and field scene as a whole and the competition with the African athletes, do you think that Americans can compete with them at the highest level?

Twill: Ah, I got that questions a million times when I was running my best. Can you beat the Kenyans. Why can't you beat the Kenyans? And I was like, Well I'm beating some of them. There just is a lot of them (laughs) to beat.

Where we are right now, I think distance running in our country is improving. I mean we have the young guys, a core that can do some really good things. It's just a matter of pushing that line, taking advantage of that opportunity. But I do think the guys are there to be able to run top 5, top 10 in the world at the next two Olympic Games and world championships because there is some great talent out there.

LRC: Do any of the young guys stand out in your mind?
Twill: Ritzenhein. If I had to pick a young buck that just like really sticks out, (it's him). He's a native Michigander and I've watched his career throughout. He still looks really young. I think if he stays healthy that he's one of those guys who comes around once in a long-time.

LRC: Do you have any opinions on Alan Webb?
Uhhh (pause), he's another one a once in a lifetime athlete. When you've got a guy like that, the sky is the limit. It's just a matter of staying hungry and healthy and (to) keep training extremely hard. If you are able to run 3:53 in high school, I mean the guy has got something. It's just a matter of being able to handle some of the things that are going to come at him the next couple of years when he's going to the European races and he's getting a little lesson taught to him. It's a totally different ballgame with the European races. So once he learns the lesson - if he can get through that and learn from it and grow, then he can be a great miler. Nobody runs 3:53 with 1:46 speed without having the opportunity to be a great miler.

LRC: Looking at something that we at LetsRun.com like to talk about, drugs in the sport, how big of a concern was that for you? Is it something you thought about a lot?

Twill: I mean everybody talked about it. When you go to the European circuit, that's what people talk about - who's on this, that guy's on that, she's on that and I got to the point where I was like either I'm going to quit because it's so corrupt or you just get to that time point where you're like, Listen, I've run 28:05 and I need to get down to (some other time).

(That mentality was the only option). Because one year (1993) I ran world champs and I believe Francesco Panetta tested positive in front of me at the world champs - I think. If you look back at the IAAF records, it says there was a positive but that never became public but I saw the results and it said that beside his name.

People still considered me (to be) seventh but really that moved me up to sixth. Things like that bothered me because I felt I should be recognized as 6^th instead of 7^th even though some people would be like, What's the difference? I just think as hard as we work that one place is a lot.

To all the younger runners out there who talk about it, my advice to you is you can't worry about. The faster you run the more people you are going to pass that's the only way you can look at it.

LRC: How big of a problem do you think it is? Do you think a lot of people are on it? Personally, I used to think it was a bigger problem than I do now.

Twill: (Long pause). I would say that if there is guy like me that's from like Monroe, Michigan who's short and stocky and can run 27:31 then I do believe there is some guy out there who is much more talented than me who can throw together some really fast times.

There are people on it (drugs) but I also think there are some special talented people that can run really fast. It may look speculative (from their fast times) that they are on drugs but if I can run 27:31, 8:14 eating Wheaties, then I know there are some people out there with the better body types that are raised in different altitudes that should be running that fast.

LRC: That's kind of what I think as well. If you're running 27:30 as an American, why couldn't someone run a minute faster than that?
Twill: That's what I tell people. You can speculate that he is (on drugs). But if I did it (without the use of drugs), and if you look at where I came from and my training back ground, on sidewalks every day, not at altitude in Monroe, Michigan when I was young whereas Haile (Gebrselassie) is training at altitude and he has support, he trains extremely hard, he's staying healthy, then one minute faster doesn't seem that all outrageous when you look at it like that.

I mean the guy (Gebrselassie) is 5'3 90 pounds with a 92 percent max VO2 or whatever (laughs). Put all that together with healthiness and hard work and you have a sub 27.

End of Part 2
Part III of III Here
Preview of Part III: In Part III, Todd talks about running even splits, his high high school career, altitude training and the rest of his life. Plus in Part III, Todd gives some great advice to all the "running fools" out there (that's all of you who read this site, but we can't give away what he says), and tells high schoolers how to get a leg up on their competitors.
Excerpts from part 3:
On what drove him to run (and to retire): "And once you get that time (goal) in your head, that you've got to run faster and faster and faster, then nothing else matters nobody that you are racing against. That's the whole way I took my career I've got to push myself to run faster and faster. That's what actually led to me retire I know I can't go any faster and it's pissing me off that I can't. I'm too competitive so I've got to throw the shoes in the closest and start helping other people."

On his racing style: "In a five mile race, people think you have to be up in that lead pack and go out in 60 when really 99.9 percent of those guys are going to be coming back to you after 8-10 minutes into the race."

Part III of III Here