Saw this in the local news here. Got a week left until Chicago. Hope these guys do well.
Did that guy really bronze at the NCAAs?
It is a good idea and I am curious as to how the race photo companies are going to respond to it, especially since they are not only providing an easy way to get pictures but also offering the actual prints.
I guess the only downside is that you cannot totally rely on it since it is not guaranteed that someone will get your picture.
I hope they do well because this will be fun if it goes widespread...
I have been a photographer for MarathonFoto for 3 years. The reason MarathonFoto and other companies like it exist is because they have a product the average joe can not produce. We use equipment that just cannot be replicated by a camera phone (which would be the main source of the photos for this app... since it's an app... on a phone). The depth of field capabilities, fast shutter speeds, and dynamic range of a dslr still far outperforms a camera phone.
Regardless of the product differences between cameras, the pricing structure is WAAAAAAY off. As a MArathonFoto photographer I take anywhere between 15,000-20,000 photos at a major marathon. Of those somewhere between 500-1500 of those photos may be bought. That amount of photo sales would equate to $2,500 - $7,500 for one marathon on this dude's app at $5 per photo. That is laughable. Once people start figuring that out, the market will be flooded with a gazillion photographers sending their photos to this app resulting in 10s of millions of photos for each major race. Not practical at that price point.
By the way, can anyone comment on the legality of the non-official race photography company selling their photos to race participants at the chicago marathon? Does the official race photography company have exclusive rights to sell their photos to the runners or can anyone do that?
ekw wrote:
I have been a photographer for MarathonFoto for 3 years. The reason MarathonFoto and other companies like it exist is because they have a product the average joe can not produce. We use equipment that just cannot be replicated by a camera phone (which would be the main source of the photos for this app... since it's an app... on a phone). The depth of field capabilities, fast shutter speeds, and dynamic range of a dslr still far outperforms a camera phone.
Regardless of the product differences between cameras, the pricing structure is WAAAAAAY off. As a MArathonFoto photographer I take anywhere between 15,000-20,000 photos at a major marathon. Of those somewhere between 500-1500 of those photos may be bought. That amount of photo sales would equate to $2,500 - $7,500 for one marathon on this dude's app at $5 per photo. That is laughable. Once people start figuring that out, the market will be flooded with a gazillion photographers sending their photos to this app resulting in 10s of millions of photos for each major race. Not practical at that price point.
By the way, can anyone comment on the legality of the non-official race photography company selling their photos to race participants at the chicago marathon? Does the official race photography company have exclusive rights to sell their photos to the runners or can anyone do that?
Did it occur to you that this app may be an incentive for some hobby photographers to bring out their nice cameras for the race? Who said anything about phones? But new phones do take killer pictures.
I also do not understand your math. More pictures is actually a better thing for the runners. It gives us a better selection of photos from which to choose. The app isn't buying the photos from the photographers. The photographers upload them in hopes of a runner buying one. If the app can truly differentiate photos by race number, this will be awesome for runners. More of a selection and more of an incentive for the photographer to take better pictures than the guy next to him. The photographer uploads the pictures for free and if one is selected, the app gets $1.50 and the photographer gets $5.00. If no one buys a picture, no one spends/gets anything. My guess is that any photos without race numbers get discarded during the upload process, again another incentive for the photographer to get a solid shot of the race bib.
Legal questions are valid, but its not like people don't currently take pictures at races. As long as the company isn't touting the service as "official" to the Chicago Marathon it shouldn't be an issue.
You ought to consider uploading your photos since your pictures cannot be replicated.
Can't speak to the legality of it, but I'd guess as long as I'm taking pictures, in a public place, I can sell them to whoever I want to.
I think their major premise is that the reason MarathonFoto only sells 500-1500 pcitures for a race is because of their insanely high price point. For the $30 that a person is spending on a single MF download, they could be getting 5 from this place. That changes the math a bit...
That app should be outlawed by the race director since it steals sales from legitimate race photographers and hard working professional freelancers.
ekw wrote:
Not practical at that price point.
What is not practical? No one is forced to buy anything, right? If there is a good picture of you, you buy it for $6.50. If not, you don't buy it. I am not sure what the problem is, but please let us know b/c I might use this in Chicago.
This is essentially the taxi vs uber battle...
TAFWA Portland OR wrote:
That app should be outlawed by the race director since it steals sales from legitimate race photographers and hard working professional freelancers.
Those "legitimate race photographers" better get them a good union and some oil-slicked lobbyists real soon, because I think they just got DISRUPTED!
Somewhat related: We have a big marathon here in town that uses marathon photo and a local photographer always take hundreds of pictures and posts them to Facebook for people to download for free. His pictures are always really good, too, and if he knows you he will tag you in them so you know they've been posted. He just likes doing it.
Living In The Pines wrote:
TAFWA Portland OR wrote:That app should be outlawed by the race director since it steals sales from legitimate race photographers and hard working professional freelancers.
Those "legitimate race photographers" better get them a good union and some oil-slicked lobbyists real soon, because I think they just got DISRUPTED!
Somewhat related: We have a big marathon here in town that uses marathon photo and a local photographer always take hundreds of pictures and posts them to Facebook for people to download for free. His pictures are always really good, too, and if he knows you he will tag you in them so you know they've been posted. He just likes doing it.
Marathon officials need to ban unauthorized cameras.
I'm guessing with regard to the legality its in the public domain so anyone can take photos. 'Chicago Marathon' is trademarked so I'm sure these guys can never say that, or say they're affiliated in any way.
New phones take reasonably okay pictures for instagram, that's it. They do not blow up well and also there's the question of archiving and dealing with the inveitable Instagram failure in a couple years when the next social media darling is upon us.I'm not saying I have ever bought a race photo from a "pro" but relying on a phone is idiotic for anyone who actually cares about photography.
Runner Photo wrote:
ekw wrote:I have been a photographer for MarathonFoto for 3 years. The reason MarathonFoto and other companies like it exist is because they have a product the average joe can not produce. We use equipment that just cannot be replicated by a camera phone (which would be the main source of the photos for this app... since it's an app... on a phone). The depth of field capabilities, fast shutter speeds, and dynamic range of a dslr still far outperforms a camera phone.
Regardless of the product differences between cameras, the pricing structure is WAAAAAAY off. As a MArathonFoto photographer I take anywhere between 15,000-20,000 photos at a major marathon. Of those somewhere between 500-1500 of those photos may be bought. That amount of photo sales would equate to $2,500 - $7,500 for one marathon on this dude's app at $5 per photo. That is laughable. Once people start figuring that out, the market will be flooded with a gazillion photographers sending their photos to this app resulting in 10s of millions of photos for each major race. Not practical at that price point.
By the way, can anyone comment on the legality of the non-official race photography company selling their photos to race participants at the chicago marathon? Does the official race photography company have exclusive rights to sell their photos to the runners or can anyone do that?
Did it occur to you that this app may be an incentive for some hobby photographers to bring out their nice cameras for the race? Who said anything about phones? But new phones do take killer pictures.
I also do not understand your math. More pictures is actually a better thing for the runners. It gives us a better selection of photos from which to choose. The app isn't buying the photos from the photographers. The photographers upload them in hopes of a runner buying one. If the app can truly differentiate photos by race number, this will be awesome for runners. More of a selection and more of an incentive for the photographer to take better pictures than the guy next to him. The photographer uploads the pictures for free and if one is selected, the app gets $1.50 and the photographer gets $5.00. If no one buys a picture, no one spends/gets anything. My guess is that any photos without race numbers get discarded during the upload process, again another incentive for the photographer to get a solid shot of the race bib.
Legal questions are valid, but its not like people don't currently take pictures at races. As long as the company isn't touting the service as "official" to the Chicago Marathon it shouldn't be an issue.
You ought to consider uploading your photos since your pictures cannot be replicated.
camera jockey wrote:
New phones take reasonably okay pictures for instagram, that's it. They do not blow up well and also there's the question of archiving and dealing with the inveitable Instagram failure in a couple years when the next social media darling is upon us.
You do realize that probably 98% of people buying these photos are not blowing them up wall sized, right? They are doing exactly what you said...putting them on Instagram, Facebook, etc. Maybe they'll put them on a Christmas card or in their office. In everyone of these situations, the quality of the photo taken by a phone is perfectly fine.
I think the "Not practical at that prince point" was directed at the business model. The company is going to have sell so many 1000's of pictures to break even on storage & resource costs. The question is, is the market for race photos large enough?
camera jockey wrote:
New phones take reasonably okay pictures for instagram, that's it. They do not blow up well and also there's the question of archiving and dealing with the inveitable Instagram failure in a couple years when the next social media darling is upon us.
I'm not saying I have ever bought a race photo from a "pro" but relying on a phone is idiotic for anyone who actually cares about photography.
Do new phones take SLR quality photos? Of course not. But I think you're under-selling their quality. We regularly blow up photos from our phones and they look great. They don't match our DSLR photos, but they more than get the job done.
RvaRunner wrote:
camera jockey wrote:New phones take reasonably okay pictures for instagram, that's it. They do not blow up well and also there's the question of archiving and dealing with the inveitable Instagram failure in a couple years when the next social media darling is upon us.
You do realize that probably 98% of people buying these photos are not blowing them up wall sized, right? They are doing exactly what you said...putting them on Instagram, Facebook, etc. Maybe they'll put them on a Christmas card or in their office. In everyone of these situations, the quality of the photo taken by a phone is perfectly fine.
Not to mention people with nice cameras can participate in this process. Why are people acting like this is limited to phones? Take pics with your nice sports camera, upload them to your computer, edit, remove the crappy ones and add to app using desktop widget. PROFIT!
What do people do with the pictures they buy from marathon photo anyway? I have never bought one. I am not saying that it is stupid, but I am just curious. I can't see putting a picture of just myself up in my house or at my office. Maybe I would get one of my wife.
The race directors can and will make use of this App illegal.
I think it is a great idea.
I just downloaded it to test out at a XC meet tomorrow, but it doesn't look like you can add a race. Must just be a Chicago thing for now.
Blah Blah. wrote:
The race directors can and will make use of this App illegal.
LOL, I'd like to see them try and ban photography along a public course. And the idea of them banning an app is even more absurd. They can't do anything about it except adapt and compete.
Yes, phones can take very good photos these days, but the one area where they're still far short of DSLRs is sports photography. DSLRs have flawless and instantaneous autofocus, along with huge, light-bucket lenses that support the very high shutter speeds necessary to freeze people in motion.
As for the legality of the whole thing, it's perfectly legal. You can't own a copyright in a live sporting event. It has to be something that is recorded in a tangible medium. So an NFL broadcast can be copyrighted, but not the event itself. Typically the way sporting events protect their exclusivity is just by kicking anyone out of the venue who tries to make unauthorized recordings. But they don't own the streets of Chicago, so they're probably out of luck.