GALEN RUPP Training runs

5:30 pace is for aerobic distance runs. Which are different from recovery runs.

lets say im building base over the summer, and when I begin, I am in 4:30 mile shape. 6:30 pace every day seems pretty fast

Yeah. I'm not clear what the OP is talking about. But if 5:30 is their pace for recovery runs, I then think of what someone else on this board said about running at an easy pace. They said "Easy" pace is just that, easy. There is no prescribed pace. For Rupp and Lagat, they are at a point where they run a fast pace out of sheer habit engrained in them from years of high level running. Therefore it seems conceivable to me that 5:30 pace is easy to them for recovery running. The lesson for just about anyone else would be, don't try this at home. But I'm just a poor old hobby jogger so I'll gladly defer to anyone on this.

TLW wrote:

5:30 pace is for aerobic distance runs. Which are different from recovery runs.

Rupp and Farah are not running 5:30 pace the day after massive workouts.

Long runs @ 5:30 pace, two days after a workout 5:30 pace. Not on recovery runs though.

Watched a video a couple months ago of Rupp doing a RECOVERY run on the treadmill at 6:10 pace.

Read "Train Hard Win Easy, The Kenyan Way."

Most run don't start off at a blazing pace, they use the first few clicks to warm up at 7-8-9 min pace to start. The pace quickens and you end rolling.

Most elites, collegiate runners, etc. run this way.

The Animal Within wrote:

Read "Train Hard Win Easy, The Kenyan Way."

Most run don't start off at a blazing pace, they use the first few clicks to warm up at 7-8-9 min pace to start. The pace quickens and you end rolling.

Most elites, collegiate runners, etc. run this way.

That book is universally regarded as trash.

I've run with sub 2:10 marathon runners from Kenya on their recovery runs and they go 8:30 pace for the whole run.

Difference is the next day would be 35k at 5:30 pace over hills.

Then they would do another 2 hour run at 8:30 pace the next day.

Recovery runs are for recovery. Elites know this and train this way to maximize performance during sessions.

Salazar said in the NXN videos that Rupp runs 5:40 pace on easy days and up to 6:00 on recovery days.

Straight from the mouth of the man.

He also says that it takes x amount of weeks (want to say 6-7, but can't recall) to be able to handle that without being utterly exhausted. He said every year Galen starts complaining about how difficult it is before he finally breaks through that barrier.

But he also said as long as you're hitting key workout paces, then it's okay to be dog tired because training is supposed to make you tired.

So the answer to how they handle it is: they're exhausted all the time until they adapt.

-Farah and Rupp 5:40 on easy days, 6 mins if really tired. Mary Cain 6:30 easy day pace.

-Salazar believes a lot of people run too slowly on easy days (Farah ran way too easy (7min) before joining him, says it was wasted time).

-Thinks if you train yourself to run harder on easy days gradually then you can run moderately hard and still recover.

-Easy days should be ~1:30 slower per mile than 5k pace. (ex.: 15:40 5k shouldn't be running slower than 6:40 per mile for easy days)

-everybody has this "nonsense idea" that you should be fresh all the time, but you should be tired. as long as you hit hard workouts than feeling good on an easy day doesn't matter.

-have to break through the tiredness. takes about 6 weeks for body to adapt. Rupp always complains after 4-5 weeks saying he's dead tired, then a week later he breaks through and runs an amazing workout.

-hard training gets it done. can't be overtraining if improving on hard workouts.

Easy isn't a pace, it's a feel.

malmo wrote:

Easy isn't a pace, it's a feel.

Salazar is pretty much saying the opposite.

easy apparently is a pace wrote:

Salazar is pretty much saying the opposite.

No he isn't.

Why does everyone always want to run so easy? Challenge yourself aerobically and run a good pace. Bunch of morons on here. If you can't handle high mileage, pick up the pace and get faster. Getting faster is the point.

fasdfasdf wrote:

Why does everyone always want to run so easy? Challenge yourself aerobically and run a good pace. Bunch of morons on here. If you can't handle high mileage, pick up the pace and get faster. Getting faster is the point.

Its a chicken and egg thing. As you get fitter, your easy pace gets faster.

"Easy" and "slow" aren't synonyms. Problem with most people is their easy pace is much slower than when it actually becomes easy: for instance, a runner whose easy pace is 6:00 who runs 7:00 (which is actually slow).

I think a lot of the problem here is the misunderstanding about what a "recovery" run is. Too many people get the mistaken idea that you are recovering when you are running. Yes, in a relative sense you are, but recovery occurs when you are NOT running -- sleeping, eating, sitting, walking, etc. When you are running you are training. It's OK to call your runs "recovery" in a colloquial sense, but make no mistake about it, when you lace up your shoes and you go for a run, at any pace, you are training.

Recover when you stop.

malmo wrote:

easy apparently is a pace wrote:

Salazar is pretty much saying the opposite.

No he isn't.

Uh, yes, he is.

Watch the videos and stop trying to be so argumentative.

He qualifies what easy is by PACE and the effort is MODERATELY HARD, not easy. Then he qualifies that the FEELING is supposed to be TIRED.

It's okay to be wrong. You are. That's fine.

You're the one who's being argumentative. You're hanging onto one phrase that Alberto uttered "moderately hard" and are declaring that he means that 5:40 pace (their easy days) is somehow moderately hard. It's not.

I am 100% certain that 5:40 for Mo or Galen isn't "moderately hard". It's easy. Way easy for those guys.

From my training logs. 8.5 mile measured morning magneto loop. Recorded distance, time and effort contemporaneously. Didn't figure out the pace until decades later. Very interesting what the results show. As fitness improves, the paces that match with the effort assessment changes too. Who'd a thunk it?

45:45 5:23 hard

45:50 5:24 moderate-hard

47:30 5:35 moderate

49:00 5:46 moderate

48:00 5:39 moderate

54:00 6:21 slow

53:00 6:14 slow

52:30 6:11 slow

48:00 5:39 moderate

46:30 5:28 fast

46:00 5:25 fast

48:30 5:42 moderate

46:05 5:25 fast

49:00 5:46 moderate

49:00 5:46 easy

48:30 5:42 easy

49:30 5:49 easy

47:00 5:32 moderate

46:50 5:31 moderate

46:00 5:25 fast

47:00 5:32 moderate

44:07 5:11 very hard

52:30 6:11 slow

47:30 5:35 easy

48:30 5:42 easy

44:30 5:14 fast

48:30 5:42 easy

48:30 5:42 easy

46:00 5:25 moderate

43:28 5:07 very hard

50:00 5:53 easy

51:00 6:00 easy

48:20 5:41 easy

48:30 5:42 easy

46:30 5:28 moderate

47:30 5:35 easy

48:00 5:39 moderate

48:00 5:39 moderate

48:00 5:39 easy

48:00 5:39 easy

47:30 5:35 easy

48:00 5:39 moderate

48:30 5:42 easy

51:00 6:00 easy

49:00 5:46 easy

50:00 5:53 easy

47:10 5:33 moderate

48:00 5:39 moderate

50:00 5:53 easy

If I recall, Alberto mentioned that Mo and Galen run about 5:40 pace. If there's been a hard workout or they're feeling tired, they might run 6 flat pace. In one video, Galen did an interview on a treadmill at about 6:10 pace after his 2 mile record. This was with a cold, at altitude in Albuquerque after a race.

Saying they do their runs at 5:30 pace is pushing it.

Here's my take: Malmo is saying easy is a feeling, but Salazar isn't.

Why? He's saying an easy run shouldn't be slower than x:xx. But anyone and everyone knows that x:xx will feel different one day than another. Maybe x:xx is easy one day, but the next day feels really hard while y:yy feels easy on that day.

So Malmo is saying its a feeling, but if you go by that then your paces are going to vary a lot depending on that feeling.

Salazar, on the other hand, is saying that it ISN'T a feeling and is more a pace so the feeling will actually change. A few weeks into it that feeling can be quite bad but sticking it with it hopefully that feeling will change. Regardless, the feeling doesn't matter as long as you're hitting correct paces on workout days.

That's my take. I get Malmo's voodoo zen feel thing and think that's probably good for the vast majority of us, but it isn't what Salazar is saying either.

I thinkeople here are missing the point. 5:40 pace for a 27:00 runner is easy. See here

Easy paces per mile based on 10000 shape

26:30. 5:45

27:00. 5:52

30:00. 6:28

32:00. 6:51

35:00. 7:26

As you can see most people have a hard time realizing how easy 5:30-6:00 paces are for the super elite

malmo wrote:

You're the one who's being argumentative. You're hanging onto one phrase that Alberto uttered "moderately hard" and are declaring that he means that 5:40 pace (their easy days) is somehow moderately hard. It's not.

I am 100% certain that 5:40 for Mo or Galen isn't "moderately hard". It's easy. Way easy for those guys.

From my training logs. 8.5 mile measured morning magneto loop. Recorded distance, time and effort contemporaneously. Didn't figure out the pace until decades later. Very interesting what the results show. As fitness improves, the paces that match with the effort assessment changes too. Who'd a thunk it?

Bob Kennedy said that when he was running ~13:00 with Kim MacDonald, his easy pace was 5:40, and apparently Daniel Komen was about the same. The delta is 1:30 slower than 5K race pace, which is what I try to keep for people. Nothing wrong here.

But I think what people here are missing is that before Salazar, Mo Farah was training quite a bit slower than this on recovery days--something OVER 6:00, like 6:30 as I recall. And Salazar claims that the primary change he made for Mo was to run his easy runs faster.

Physiology 101--IF (and that's a big if for people who are not Rupp and Farah and don't have the same recovery powers) you can recover at a faster pace, you get a somewhat larger training effect.