pikovsky
Abel Kirui 4/26/2012 2:01PM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Mr. Renato Canova, what happens with Abel Kirui last Sunday at London Marathon? His he not ready yet to sustain such an elevated rhythm, because his aerobic house is not complete yet, and we have to wait one or two more years to develop the engine and see his best performances or another thing enables him to go under 2h05 by now?
My bests regards.
Renato Canova
Coach
RE: Abel Kirui 4/26/2012 4:08PM - in reply to pikovsky Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Abel suffered of stomach problems during the last two weeks of preparation. This happened occasionally other times during the last 5 months, but his solution always was to take some traditional medicine able to cancel the pain, but not to solve the problem.
I spoke in London with Claudio Berardelli, coach of Prisca Jeptoo among others, that told me many athletes and himself had the same problems, and they went to an Italian Doctor in Nairobi Hospital, very good specialist of internal medicine, able to do advanced investigation, who found for everybody a bacterium called helicopbacterium. This bacterium not only provokes some pain, but reduces the food absorbtion ability. For a marathon runner, this means less fuel at disposal of the athlete, and for that reason Abel almost jogged the last two kilometers.
However, the appointed Kenyan responsible coach for Marathon in Olympics, David Letting, had the opportunity (and also the precise task from AK) to follow the most important workouts of all the 6 men and women selected, from the beginning of January, and could see with his eyes the level of preparation of Abel, in not less than 5 workouts (one of them, 40 km in 2:04:54 !).
Now Abel has to take tabletes for one week. After this, according to Claudio's experience, the problem is completely over, and the athlete must only pay attention to his food and his drinks.
So, for everybody thinks his selection is only due to his two World titles, the real reason is that AK had precise infos about the shape of Abel and Moses in training, their problems and the solutions : exactly the same with the other competitors. And, having 3 and half months only before Olympic, to select athletes having some REAL problem at the moment can be a bad choice, because there is no time for a full recovery followed by the best possible training.
Moronic
RE: Abel Kirui 4/26/2012 4:33PM - in reply to Renato Canova Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Renato Canova wrote:
himself had the same problems, and they went to an Italian Doctor in Nairobi Hospital, very good specialist of internal medicine, able to do advanced investigation, who found for everybody a bacterium called helicopbacterium.

I'm guessing you mean 'Helicobacter pylori', http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicobacter_pylori
There was a time when this complaint was referred to as stomach ulcers bought on by stress, amongst other things. It is microbial in cause and infection is more prevalent in developing countries. Incidence is decreasing in Western countries probably due to medication.

'Helicobacter pylori was first discovered in the stomachs of patients with gastritis and stomach ulcers in 1982 by Dr. Barry Marshall and Dr. Robin Warren of Perth, Western Australia. At the time, the conventional thinking was that no bacterium can live in the human stomach, as the stomach produced extensive amounts of acid of a strength similar to the acid found in a car battery. Marshall and Warren rewrote the textbooks with reference to what causes gastritis and gastric ulcers. In recognition of their discovery, they were awarded the 2005 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine.'
JUNIOR
RE: Abel Kirui 4/26/2012 4:43PM - in reply to Renato Canova Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Thanks MR. Renato for that piece of enlightenement. Abel Kirui looked really dangerous in London and would have run 2:04 if not for the problem you have just mentioned. I think he also spent too much energy hovering all over the street trying to detach himself from Lelisa who had clued himself to his heels. That said, he should be fine at the Olympics. I don't know if you have mentioned this prior but what happened to Moses Mosop in Rotterdam? I have no doubt of his abilities and he really seemed to have a problem during the race. He selection to the team is a great boost.
pikovsky
RE: Abel Kirui 4/27/2012 6:30AM - in reply to pikovsky Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Thank you Mr. Canova, for your attention.
One question: At OG, which of your two athletes have more chances to win, due to weather conditions and of course as you said, the recovery problem that could enable an optimal special period or not? Kirui or Mosop, which of the two have more facility to adapt that kind of situation, not only physically but also the psychological side?
Renato Canova
Coach
RE: Abel Kirui 4/27/2012 9:46AM - in reply to pikovsky Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I think Wilson, Abel and Moses can have the same chance to win. It depends on the preparation, and on the weather of the day.
What I can say is that :

1. Wilson suffers hot weather a little bit more than Abel (that is good in humid conditions, too) and Moses (good with dry hot, not so good with humidity)

2. Wilson is the one having more balance as person. He is very thoughtful, and I suppose doesn't suffer any particular pressure (the day before the race in London he went for shopping with his wife...)

3. Abel is the more enthusiastic, living moments of great excitment also in training. This can be a very good chance if we are able to guide this characteristic in the right channel, but can also be dangerous if the enthusiasm pushes him to exceed during his training. But he's stronger than what people think.

4. Moses is the most talented under the side of endurance (also mental) and speed, but never had great continuity in his training at top level, due to some physical problem he had in the past. Moses, more than Wilson and Abel, is inclined to do very hard training when completely fit and motivated, and is inclined to escape from real training when disturbed for some problem. But now he is fully motivated...

For that reason, from 12th of May (when I'll go back Kenya) I plan to be with them daily in training, because is not only important to follow them during their workouts, but also during their recovery in order not to have risks (this is not the case of Wilson).
Dick Doobey
RE: Abel Kirui 4/27/2012 9:59AM - in reply to Renato Canova Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Wow, this is really interesting insight! Thank you Renato for sharing this kind of information about these athletes.

I'm sure I am not the only person who feels like they are gaining some real insight from Dr. Canova!
Cheshire
RE: Abel Kirui 4/27/2012 11:13AM - in reply to Renato Canova Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Very interesting comments. I believe Athletics Kenya selected a very balanced and diverse team. As you so rightly pointed out they offer many different strengths. Kirui for experience in Championships and running well in tough conditions. Mosop for his overall potential and large engine. And Kipsang as he currently stands as most peoples favourite for gold this Summer. Alot of debate surrounding the exclusion of G Mutai & Makau, But neither delivered, Makau injured, what use would it of been selecting him when the Olympics are coming up rapidly. And for Mutai DNF in Boston because it was hot. The Same conditions are likely this summer. Anyway thanks for your insight, I hope the team all run well this summer!
NativeSon
RE: Abel Kirui 4/27/2012 7:48PM - in reply to Cheshire Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Great insigt Doc. Thanks!

On a slightly different note, how about the women?

We have two ladies who, have run very fast; Shobukhova and Gelana. how do you rate the women's field?

Also, what's your opinion on Jeptoo? Should Florence have got a wild card?

Once again, thanks a lot for your insight.
Nutella1
RE: Abel Kirui 4/27/2012 9:10PM - in reply to Renato Canova Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
It always strikes me how some of the worlds most advanced athletes would rather eat some roots or drink turtle blood instead of going to a real doctor in the first place.

Oh well, glad to hear they got the problem under control.
oh please
RE: Abel Kirui 4/27/2012 9:23PM - in reply to NativeSon Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

NativeSon wrote:

Great insigt Doc. Thanks!

On a slightly different note, how about the women?

We have two ladies who, have run very fast; Shobukhova and Gelana. how do you rate the women's field?

Also, what's your opinion on Jeptoo? Should Florence have got a wild card?

Once again, thanks a lot for your insight.


I know you asked for Dr Canova, however in my mind I can't see Mary Keitany being beat. She has shown the capability and willingess to run a blazing half split in a marathon, and we saw in London what potential there is when she doesn't go out at WR pace on a hilly course.
..
RE: Abel Kirui 4/27/2012 9:28PM - in reply to oh please Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
^What if she goes out at WR pace in the heat. After NYC I dont think that many people can doubt her ability to throw the race.
Renato Canova
Coach
RE: Abel Kirui 4/28/2012 12:38AM - in reply to NativeSon Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Mary learnt from the mistake of NY, and changed a little bit her training. She is coached by Gabriele Nicola, my follower from several years (we are from the same town, Turin, and he is in Iten with me), who brought a new organisation and new mentality in Kenya about female athletes. He started working with Mary after her motherhood, having the goal to increase volume and intensity of training. Last year he worked with two fixed days (Tuesday and Friday) for the workouts, due to the difficulty to organise a big group in individual way, and many times it was not possible to define the best personal training, because, if an athlete moves to greater specific intensity (that is our final goal), needs also to use the right recovery, that depends on personal situations.
This year, being Olympic year, the plan was to have care about Mary on individual basis, and this type of technical organisation worked very much better. So, I think she can win Olympic, because Gabriele doesn't have any other important athlete to follow in the next period, and can concentrate all his attention in Mary's preparation.
About Florence Kiplagat, I knew she was not in her best shape for running a marathon. She had a very good training during the last two months, but last year, after winning Berlin, had personal problems that disturbed her a lot in the next 3 months, having very little training.
She was able to recover her speed, but had a clear lack of endurance (we went for 3 long runs only, and the last only was really ok, while her workouts on track were very good), and I waited for some problems after 35 km.
So, I know her talent is very high, but honestly there were no reasons for putting her in the Kenyan team, replacing Prisca Jeptoo that won silver medal in WCh and beated her in the direct challenge. But you can wait for something very good at the end of the season....
Before London, I have Shobukhova as my clear favourite. This for her ability in the final : 6'36" in the last 2195m 3 years ago, and 6'52" last year. But Mary finished in 6'51" in London, and after 5 km in 15'45", with an average in the last 12,195m of 3'10"5 per km, and frankly I don't think easy, also for the best Shobukhova, running the second half in 1:07:44....
For that reason I'm optimistic that both the titles can go to Kenya. And, if this happens, Iten can be the town of the medals in Marathon (in Iten there are Mary and Edna, like as Wilson and Abel, and Moses came back Eldoret from Ngong), confirming that is the "Town of Champions".
Raptured
RE: Abel Kirui 4/28/2012 2:19AM - in reply to Renato Canova Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Renato, how fast do you think Abel can run if he was pushed from the gun? Yes, he has won 2 marathon championships, but he has not broken 2:06:54 in over 3 years. Do you really honestly think he has a shot to beat Kipsang or Mosop?
My 2 cents Renato
RE: Abel Kirui 4/28/2012 10:26AM - in reply to Renato Canova Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Renato,

1) Wilson seems very intelligent and balanced.I have just watched his 10minutes long interview on youtube and he comes across as very intelligent .

2)Mosop seems to be negatively affected when there is too much focus on him by the press.It happened on several times in world cross country and to some extend prior to chicago.That seems to have had an impact in Rotterdam this year.However prior to Boston last year there was very little press attention on him and he did very well.

3) What happened to G. Mutai was he injured prior to Boston?

4)What is the advantage of training in Iten compared to Ngong?

5)What is your opinion on the AK approach for 10000m trials for the olympics.
NativeSon
RE: Abel Kirui 4/28/2012 2:10PM - in reply to Raptured Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Thank you Doc. Initially, I had thought that the idea of leaving out florence was a mistake but I've been impressed by Jeptoo both in Daegu and London.

It would be great to win both titles. As for Mary, I think she is the clear favourite now and all eyes will be on her.
NativeSon
RE: Abel Kirui 4/28/2012 3:07PM - in reply to oh please Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

oh please wrote:


NativeSon wrote:

Great insigt Doc. Thanks!

On a slightly different note, how about the women?

We have two ladies who, have run very fast; Shobukhova and Gelana. how do you rate the women's field?

Also, what's your opinion on Jeptoo? Should Florence have got a wild card?

Once again, thanks a lot for your insight.


I know you asked for Dr Canova, however in my mind I can't see Mary Keitany being beat. She has shown the capability and willingess to run a blazing half split in a marathon, and we saw in London what potential there is when she doesn't go out at WR upace on a hilly course.


I think so too. If Mary can execute her first half reasonably well, she has a very strong second half and that may make the difference.

Looking back, I think her bad race in NY taught her a lesson that might be very vital in London.