Cowtown Marathon Winner DQ'd

2/10

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/02/26/3764019/cowtown-winner-quickly-disqualified.html#storylink=omni_popular?storylink=addthis

"Initial runner-up Kolin Styles was declared the winner of the 26.2-mile race when Scott Downard was disqualified because he didn't register for the race and was wearing an unauthorized bib."

Downard ran 2:31:40. Should he have been disqualified? I think so, but I also think bib numbers should be transferable or something. He didn't bandit the race, he just ran in place of his friend. At least there wasn't any prize money at stake. If there was, he A) probably wouldn't have won with a 2:31 and B) might have registered his own name sooner.

Steph, there was prize money (something of value) in the form of an all-expenses paid trip to the next NYC marathon.

In addition to everything else he has to do, now a Race Director has to keep track of transferable race numbers?????

Also, Downard perpetuated a fraud.

Yes he should have been DQd. Next.

With what races cost these days, I don't see why some of the larger ones can't institute some sort of transfer policy. They would obviously need to charge a high enough penalty to make it worth the administrative trouble, and then some.

Professional sports teams have come up with a way for season-ticket holders to transfer tickets they otherwise would never use (and bypassing scalpers), I don't see why expensive, sold-out races can't do the same. Progress, people. Progress.

2:31 should not be allowed to be a winning time anyway.

I have run faster than that, and have never won a marathon. Nor did I expect to.

2:25 for men should be a cut off time for any marathon with more than 500 runners. No one uner 2:25? Then no winner.

I didn't say I'm on his side. I'm trying to be neutral and see both sides. I think it's bad publicity if your winner is disqualified for something like this. He ran the entire race with an official bib number that someone paid for. I started the thread for input as to what could have been done or can be done differently in the future. The obvious solution is the guy should have registered himself, but I don't know his circumstances.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

I didn't say I'm on his side. I'm trying to be neutral and see both sides. I think it's bad publicity if your winner is disqualified for something like this. He ran the entire race with an official bib number that someone paid for. I started the thread for input as to what could have been done or can be done differently in the future. The obvious solution is the guy should have registered himself, but I don't know his circumstances.

I think it's good publicity when your winner is DQ'd for something like this. It means they stand by their policies. It would be worse if they go "well, we enforce our stated policy except in cases where you win". So the guy didn't follow the rules, he was DQ'd as he should have been, and now it's less likely that others will follow his lead due to the publicity. Good deal all around.

While I think some sort of transfer policy would be nice, it is an incredible hassle and likely would be misused more than what happens now. Everyone says "Oh, it's just a little change on the computer", but it's really not. You need to get new waivers from the transferee, and what do you do about full races? You want to start getting around race limits by having people register early then transfer to their friend, or should someone on the waiting list get it instead? How do you deal with the fact everyone decides to do the "transfer" at the last minute? What do you do about someone that registers early then "transfers" after the price goes up?

Having been on the administration end of a transfer/refund policy for a small race I can't imagine how hard it would be to deal with it for 9000 participants. Starting one really opens a bag of worms.

Give his friend the award? What if he never told them his real name?

I would only allow transfers for races that are full. If the race isn't full then a person can register through the race and there is no need for a transfer. You would also set a trasfer deadline just like a registration deadline. You put a $10 or $15 fee on transfers and it will not be abused.

A local race here let one of the running stores handle the transfers. You could either put your name on a list or already have someone that wanted your number. I believe it was up to the runners to either find someone to transfer to or transfer from. Runners are generally internet savvy (a bit at least) and a simple message board or forum could easily handle this.

joho wrote:

I would only allow transfers for races that are full. If the race isn't full then a person can register through the race and there is no need for a transfer. You would also set a trasfer deadline just like a registration deadline. You put a $10 or $15 fee on transfers and it will not be abused.

A local race here let one of the running stores handle the transfers. You could either put your name on a list or already have someone that wanted your number. I believe it was up to the runners to either find someone to transfer to or transfer from. Runners are generally internet savvy (a bit at least) and a simple message board or forum could easily handle this.

That seems reasonable. The RD doesn't do everything anyway. They don't have a problem having 6 different race$, but it's too much trouble to do something for the participants?

Back in 1981, Jeff Milliman "won" a marathon in 2:22:59 but had not registered at all for the race. It was a similar dilemma for the race organizers, but since he was not officially entered, he was not declared the winner. http://recoveryourstride.blogspot.com/2009/04/back-when-you-had-to-really-qualify-for.html

The problem with allowing transfers is that some people will sign up at the start of registration with the intenion of waiting to see 'how they feel' as the race gets closer. that space is taken and there is a hassle for someone who legitimatly wants to race. I support the idea of no transfers to get only those who are serious to actually enter as there are caps on most races, usually restrictions put on by the venue, not the RD.

As mentioned, it's not about the money paid it is fraud and misrepresenting your identity, which is a CRIMINAL act in most states. He got off easy. I know some RDs might have banned him from all future races.

This already happens, though, and tons of people don't end up racing because of injury. I can't see any reason they shouldn't be able to do as they wish with their bibs. Did the winner cheat? No, he didn't. If I pay $200+ for a ticket I should be able to give it to someone else, the same way I would for a concert or sporting event.

Keith, honestly how many ppl are going to use that (potential) option? say 1%....that's still less than 100ppl.

now, you charge a $20-25 xfer fee.....plus any ^ from deadlines. hey, make it so that it all must come in one envelope, w/ a new waiver signed by the transferee, and accompanying check. because of $ increases, you'd prob make $40+ per transfer. I just fail to see how that wouldn't pay for itself, if not make MORE $$$. at 100ppl, that's another $4000-$5000 in the pocket.

and for the "last min" argument, easy. No transfers after Mon/tues of race week.

cheers, dude-

Isn't the bib swap like a high school senior that signs up for the ACT but lets his friend borrow his ID and take the test because the friend may do better?

If you allow people to transfer bibs for popular always-sold-out races, it will lead to scalpers buying bibs, then selling them on e-bay at a jacked up price, which screws us, the runners, in the long run. Yeah, it makes the RD's some extra money if they ding you for $20 a transfer and would definitely benefit them, but I applaud those who are against it. The real problem is that runners' have money, and if they want to run a race, it doesn't matter if the cost jumps from $50 to $150 through scalpers; they'll pay the asking price. You needn't look further than NY to find an example of 80,000 people bending over and asking to be hosed.

But at the same time, RD's shouldn't be going to the bank off of injured runners' woes. They should allow bibs to remain with the same runner, but deferrable to the following year. Miss two years in a row, and I can understand you being out of luck at that point.

Downard Spiral wrote:

Isn't the bib swap like a high school senior that signs up for the ACT but lets his friend borrow his ID and take the test because the friend may do better?

Great analogy.

And now because of Scott Downard, all age-group award winners will have to show photo-ID before receiving their awards.

Let's not forget the other rogue in this - the guy who gave Downard his number.

Downard Spiral wrote:

Isn't the bib swap like a high school senior that signs up for the ACT but lets his friend borrow his ID and take the test because the friend may do better?

Exactly. It doesn't sound like the case here, but if it is allowed then how many people would pay people to qualify for races in races that they aren't ready for?