2:50 marathonner can't break 70 seconds for 400m.

I'm not too surprised. There's a lot of 30 and 40 year olds who can't touch a 17:30 but dip under 3. They're slow but dedicated.

Nj possible wrote:

I'm not too surprised. There's a lot of 30 and 40 year olds who can't touch a 17:30 but dip under 3. They're slow but dedicated.

sigh.......it's worse than that. I ran 2:53 and I still can't break 18 in the 5k.

Nj possible wrote:

I'm not too surprised. There's a lot of 30 and 40 year olds who can't touch a 17:30 but dip under 3. They're slow but dedicated.

Well there is no reason you should need to run a 17:30. A 3 hour marathon is only worth about an 18:30 if you train properly. At 17:30 you should be breaking 2:45 at least.

I've seen worse. A guy I know has broken 3 hours and can barely run under 75 seconds for 400m

Actually not sure which is worse. 2:50 failing to break 70 secs or 3:00 running 73s and 74s.

Maybe they are seriously on the slow twitch end of the spectrum.

Opposite problem. I can cruise through 5Ks and 10Ks at 6:00 pace or better but my marathon PR is only 3:20?! Albeit on a very hilly course.

2:44 and 74 here!

And it was actually worse than it looks as my marathon pace was hampered by lack of speed - couldn't go any faster but was ridiculously easy (low HR).

Working on speed more this year...

Pantman wrote:

2:44 and 74 here!

And it was actually worse than it looks as my marathon pace was hampered by lack of speed - couldn't go any faster but was ridiculously easy (low HR).

Working on speed more this year...

That's crazy. Great work.

What is the weekly mileage for all of you beasts?

Pantman wrote:

2:44 and 74 here!

And it was actually worse than it looks as my marathon pace was hampered by lack of speed - couldn't go any faster but was ridiculously easy (low HR).

Working on speed more this year...

The ultimate in slow twitch. Quite incredible. Immense stamina. Zero speed.

Bummer runner wrote:

Opposite problem. I can cruise through 5Ks and 10Ks at 6:00 pace or better but my marathon PR is only 3:20?! Albeit on a very hilly course.

that's pretty normal for someone who races 5k/10k a lot. whoever said otherwise was using the crappy macmillan calculator

If they did even a small amount of speed training they could go at least a few seconds faster over 400m. They also tend not to do 400m races or even an isolated time trial in training.

They probably are also not interested in speed!

the smartest letsrunner wrote:

That's crazy. Great work.

What is the weekly mileage for all of you beasts?

I was overweight (not unusual for me) and was just plodding out easy miles (mostly) to get back into shape. Ran around 20 consecutive 100+M weeks from nothing often hitting 140+ with one glorious week of 185. Was hitting 7:45 pace for 10M with a HR in double digits, but couldn't run sub 6 pace for any distance without breaking down.

I wasn't training for the marathon, I just jumped into it the night before (last minute decision).

This year I'm doin the same marathon and trying to get under 6mm pace. Working on the faster paces more with less miles - also doing a weekly session of Canova's Hill Sprints. The struggle is still similar though - sub 80sec/lap is still too fast and sub 6 still not as comfortable as I'd like. Once it's out the way I'll shoot for a 10M and then have a XC season working on speed. Maybe I'll progress a bit. My fastest 400m ever was 67secs - and that was 20 years ago now! I doubt I'll ever run faster.

Ultimately I know I'm extreme slow twitch and I have little natural inclination to run fast either. I know I'll end up doing ultras eventually but I wanted to crank out a better marathon first.

Very interesting post there. Always facinating to see extreme examples of fast twitch and slow twitch.

Marathon PR of 2:47 and my best 400 was 75, set 3 weeks after the 2:47 marathon. I have zero leg speed and do work on it a little, but enjoy long distances and 100+ mile weeks too much to really put in the effort I guess. I also think my strength will be in ultras but want to run a faster marathon before going that route- maybe if I get my 400 time down a few seconds, it will knock a few minutes off my marathon- doubt it.

This thread begs the question how to advance speed at both short and long distances simultaneously?

In this past, I've been, like other posters, quite able to sustain a slower pace for a long time. Whether it was marathon race pace or a long training run. But, the speed - the ability to rip a fast quarter or 5K - was absent. Steady, sure, and able to hit my goal marathon pace but feeling rather sluggish at short distances. After a long warm up I could cruise at that slow steady state, but that was it. I thought, but never conducted the experiment, if I could just do snappy, short training - mostly interval based around a fast 5K goal pace - I could hit that fast 5K, but this might come at the expense of the stamina building runs (or, as Canova might put it, intensive-extensive work).

Makes perfect sense to me. I was a 2:41 marathoner who couldn't break 70 for 400m. What's the big deal about that?

imarunr wrote:

Makes perfect sense to me. I was a 2:41 marathoner who couldn't break 70 for 400m. What's the big deal about that?

Sigh. Wish you could go back and edit your posts here.

To further self-flagilate, I've run 16:04 for 5k (track), 33:50 for 10k (road), 1:14 for half-marathon as well, and was pretty much maxed out doing 72s for 400m in track workouts. I am one of those guys who is 110% slow twitch I guess...

Then again, as someone else said, I never really ran sprints or worked on my 400/800 times when I was younger. I took up running when I was 20 and went straight toward the longer distances.

I ran 2:50:xx last year. When fit I can just touch 69 going all-out. Didn't run in college so maybe that's a weighted factor there.

imarunr wrote:

To further self-flagilate, I've run 16:04 for 5k (track), 33:50 for 10k (road), 1:14 for half-marathon as well, and was pretty much maxed out doing 72s for 400m in track workouts. I am one of those guys who is 110% slow twitch I guess..

Similar 10k, but couldn't have run 72s. I was running 77s at best in training. I felt like I was sprinting most of the 10k (mechanically), but could talk comfortably!