Maybe this is too hopeful but Wisconsin, Ohio and Indiana all give me hope. Lets shut down the unions including their union work rules, high locked in fees/salaries, tenure, seniority, pensions, and their in the pocket politicians.
Its why America is no longer internationally competitive. They killed the auto industry among others (remember US steel) Lets close them ALL down. It won't be easy but we can do it.
Unions: the people who brought you "the weekend."
You're right, let's give less power to working Americans, and more to corporations.
That will probably result in a high quality of life for most citizens.
I work hard, make good bread, have the weekend off and am not in a union.
I don't have to carry weight for slower coworkers because of union rules. Those who don't do the job are fired. That's fine with me.
we should not get rid of unions. We should get rid of public sector unions.
This is from FDR, obviously a huge proponent of unions, but not public sector ones.
All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management.
The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations.
Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of Government employees.
A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable.
Most of what the unions were good at have been taken over by the gov't. That being said, it is really difficult which of these two entities do more harm.
I have been self-employed the last 20 years for a reason.
Interesting. So why are the Wisconsin Republicans only trying to get rid of unions that vote Democratic while exempting those that tend to support them ( firefighters and police)?
SamuelAdams3 wrote:
I work hard, make good bread, have the weekend off and am not in a union.
You can't be this dumb, right?
Public sector Unions are the worse because they are negotiating with administrators who are not using their own money and aren't mortivated by the profit motive.
But all unions have a negative influence and we need to get rid of them. If companies did what unions do it would be called price fixing and they would be arrested. Unions just protect the incompetents.
Unions vote against Republicans and have weakened this country.
Tom S wrote:
Interesting. So why are the Wisconsin Republicans only trying to get rid of unions that vote Democratic while exempting those that tend to support them ( firefighters and police)?
Biggest problem I have with Walker. He needs to treat all public sector unions that are bankrupting the state the same. He should also end collective bargaining for police and firefighters, but they donated heavily to his campaign.
The public sector is not full of public servants. They are public leeches, leeching off of property, income and sales taxes. Then they use our tax money to turn around and give it to politicians that support them and use our tax money for millions of dollars worth of advertisements. It's completely dysfunctional and even someone as liberal as FDR knew that.
Walker doesn't have the political capital to go after the police unions now. One step at a time. But the poilce unions and their economy sucking overtime pay and pensions will need to be targeted next.
asdfdafd wrote:
[quote]Tom S wrote:
Interesting. So why are the Wisconsin Republicans only trying to get rid of unions that vote Democratic while exempting those that tend to support them ( firefighters and police)?
The attack on the middle class continues. Amazing the number of people who have belief systems that aren't even in their own best financial interests.
The GOP, the PIGS and Fire are a corrupt union larger than the Teachers and Civil Servants unions themselves. Walker is trying the "divide and conquer' tactic. Chickenhawk Cowards like Limbaugh, Romney, etc. try that all of the time.
Conundrum wrote:
The attack on the middle class continues. Amazing the number of people who have belief systems that aren't even in their own best financial interests.
Exactly. It will some bitter justice if and when these tea-party types actually get their way, and completely undercut what's left of the middle class. The corporate bosses are beside themselves with joy at the idea of the "conservative" masses making their fondest dreams come true. There is a real, profound cost to be paid for political stupidity.
lets include the,AMA, The Bar association, CPA, etc etc! ...they call themselves assoications but actually they are unions to!
The US economy will never recover until the unions are out of the way and efficient manufacturing can resume.
SamuelAdams3 wrote:
Public sector Unions are the worse because they are negotiating with administrators who are not using their own money and aren't mortivated by the profit motive.
But all unions have a negative influence and we need to get rid of them. If companies did what unions do it would be called price fixing and they would be arrested. Unions just protect the incompetents.
Unions vote against Republicans and have weakened this country.
Do you even know what you are talking about? Administrators go into those negotiations to protect the money. School admins can only negotiate with the $ they have.
You sound stupid.
Admins protect their own fiefs which is paid for with taxpayer's monies. They protect the structure and bureaucracy that gives them so many free undeserved perks. Hence that's why there are endless amounts of waste and duplication in public sector organizations such as fleets of Police Motorcycles in towns with no traffic jams, useless school administrators, useless office workers, overtime pay for already highly paid firemen, etc.
Now who sounds stupid. You are saying government adiministrators try and "protect the money" Are you seriously posting that knowing how the government has been spending so much more than they have. And you call me stupid???School administrators can only negogiate with the money they have? Have you seen the increase in school taxes? There is no idiot greater than one who does not know how much they don't know.
ccrunner609 wrote:
[quote]SamuelAdams3 wrote:
Do you even know what you are talking about? Administrators go into those negotiations to protect the money. School admins can only negotiate with the $ they have.
You sound stupid.
Yes, gov't protect their own organization. It's 'use it or lose it'. I.E. spend the money that year or lose it the next year. It's the same as non-profits like USATF. Organizations exist for themselves, for their own selfishness, and greed. That's why there needs to be term limits, transparency, and public oversight for government and non-profits.
Conundrum wrote:
The attack on the middle class continues. Amazing the number of people who have belief systems that aren't even in their own best financial interests.
While I agree that the Tea Party would be better served rallying against the corruption that exists between wall st, Dems and the GOP, I understand their frustration with public unions.
They see those working for the public sector having their salaries increase, benefits increase and then retire at 55 with a guaranteed pension all while their taxes increase, services decrease, at the same time their hours are getting cut and the value of their 401ks and houses drop. Then they see the pubic sector union members have the audacity to whine about pay freezes and lobby for tax increases.